Lance Amstrong has been charged with using PED's. What do you think? Did he do it? http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2093701#msg-2093701 Sat, 25 May 2013 17:06:41 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2283790#msg-2283790 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2283790#msg-2283790 Couldn't have happened to a nicer chap! http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/06/lance-armstrong-criminal-charges-america]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Thu, 07 Feb 2013 16:31:35 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2273276#msg-2273276 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2273276#msg-2273276 are aware this was created by someone as a joke, right? Well produced bit of humorous fiction.]]> Lane A Off Topic Forum Fri, 25 Jan 2013 05:52:24 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2273266#msg-2273266 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2273266#msg-2273266 In reply to # 2272944 by sweep

In reply to # 2272875 by Denny B in Minnesota "The Oprah edits you didn't see... "


This is BULL !

I watched the interview and the real answers to these questions were not the ones given on this tape. It was just the opposite.
The tape has been altered.

LOL!
On the internet.....surely you are kidding.........who to believe any more!!!!!]]> melbaver Off Topic Forum Fri, 25 Jan 2013 05:13:06 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2272944#msg-2272944 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2272944#msg-2272944 In reply to # 2272875 by Denny B in Minnesota "The Oprah edits you didn't see... "


This is BULL !

I watched the interview and the real answers to these questions were not the ones given on this tape. It was just the opposite.
The tape has been altered.
LOL!]]> sweep Off Topic Forum Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:22:20 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2272875#msg-2272875 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2272875#msg-2272875

This is BULL !

I watched the interview and the real answers to these questions were not the ones given on this tape. It was just the opposite.
The tape has been altered.]]> Denny B in Minnesota Off Topic Forum Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:32:49 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2271133#msg-2271133 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2271133#msg-2271133



]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Tue, 22 Jan 2013 08:22:04 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2271108#msg-2271108 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2271108#msg-2271108 In reply to # 2268325 by Northwest2go Does anybody think that Bush will own up to the lies the US administration told the world about WMD's in Iraq on the Oprah winfrey show??
...philbert, get real....it's LBJs Gulf of Tonkin incident that has set the stage for the carnage that followed...he is the real war criminal.]]> wyatt Off Topic Forum Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:54:39 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2270178#msg-2270178 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2270178#msg-2270178 racer76 Off Topic Forum Sun, 20 Jan 2013 23:24:27 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268430#msg-2268430 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268430#msg-2268430 In reply to # 2268325 by Northwest2go Does anybody think that Bush will own up to the lies the US administration told the world about WMD's in Iraq on the Oprah winfrey show??
it's amazing what we value as important in this world. everyone has been after Lance for years for doping. Bush is responsible for the deaths of upwards of 1 million people, and he walks away a free man.]]> walshja Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:06:40 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268408#msg-2268408 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268408#msg-2268408 In reply to # 2268388 by JNickell

In reply to # 2268369 by Speedracer George Hencrappie, I know that's not how his name is spelled, but that's what we call him around, here, his business is about 1 mile from me, I think they make those girly bike riding pants, he's not real popular around here among other business owners. He drank the kooliad too, can't say I fee sorry for the condensending bastard.

Come on Hap, admit it. You wear colorful spandex biker shorts when you race, don't you :D

Ballet shoes too, but shhhhhhh, let that be our little secret :)]]> Speedracer Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:37:10 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268388#msg-2268388 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268388#msg-2268388 In reply to # 2268369 by Speedracer George Hencrappie, I know that's not how his name is spelled, but that's what we call him around, here, his business is about 1 mile from me, I think they make those girly bike riding pants, he's not real popular around here among other business owners. He drank the kooliad too, can't say I fee sorry for the condensending bastard.
Come on Hap, admit it. You wear colorful spandex biker shorts when you race, don't you :D]]> JNickell Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:17:41 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268369#msg-2268369 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268369#msg-2268369 Speedracer Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:03:42 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268358#msg-2268358 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268358#msg-2268358
Numerous sources are reporting that he used performance enhancing onions.]]> peter d Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:51:04 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268325#msg-2268325 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268325#msg-2268325 Northwest2go Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:53:53 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268207#msg-2268207 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268207#msg-2268207 Lane A Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:42:12 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268180#msg-2268180 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268180#msg-2268180
In the previous few years Armstrong was paid pretty large appearance fees to compete in this event.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/homfray-lance/story-fngr0c3f-1226556990895


Former RadioShack teammates tune out Lance Armstrong confession with some Tour Down Under training]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:00:53 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268095#msg-2268095 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268095#msg-2268095 Q & A

Winfrey got right to the point, asking for yes-or-no answers to five questions.

Did Armstrong use banned substances? 'Yes.'

Did he use EPO? 'Yes.'

Did he do blood doping and transfusions? 'Yes.'

Did he use testosterone, cortisone and human growth hormone? 'Yes.'

Did he do it in all seven of his Tour wins? 'Yes.'


A lying, conniving little shit who deserves every second of the maelstrom that is going to come down on him.........including Bubba.....who doesm't ride bicycles but probably makes cyclists an exception.]]> melbaver Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 03:48:29 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268088#msg-2268088 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268088#msg-2268088
]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 02:48:38 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268087#msg-2268087 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2268087#msg-2268087 auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Fri, 18 Jan 2013 02:47:26 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2267409#msg-2267409 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2267409#msg-2267409 We should never be apathetic about cheats and frauds

]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Thu, 17 Jan 2013 07:58:31 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2266385#msg-2266385 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2266385#msg-2266385
HE LIED ABOUT HIS HAIR!!!!!]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:48:46 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2266266#msg-2266266 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2266266#msg-2266266 fordgt Off Topic Forum Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:55:58 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2266241#msg-2266241 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2266241#msg-2266241 racer76 Off Topic Forum Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:27:28 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2266114#msg-2266114 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2266114#msg-2266114
:D]]> Montrose Off Topic Forum Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:22:49 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2266096#msg-2266096 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2266096#msg-2266096 In reply to # 2265813 by Speedracer

In reply to # 2265622 by racer76

In reply to # 2265523 by rocannon Now that he has confessed, how will the vacant titles be awarded?

The only non-doper in the front pack, of course... Cadel Evans.

And exclusively, here is Lance Armstrong's OPRAH interview...

EXCLUSIVE: LANCE ARMSTRONG EVEN MORE INNOCENT THAN PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/joehildebrand/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/exclusive_armstrong_even_more_innocent_than_previously_thought/

ROTFLMAO, pretty funny, I didn't know Oprey Whifrey was a "leading sports journalist", Eric, does your newpapers just make this bullshit up, as they see fit, LOL.

I'm third generation don't give a crap about this story, but I found the Oprah comment in the Aussie newspaper hilarious, and totally freaking cluless, no wonder you have such low thoughts of us Americans, you have Larry , Curly and Mo reporting, and writing the news :)
Wasn't a serious article Hap....what we call 'taking the piss' out of Armstrong and Winfrey.
Actually most of us regard Americans as our friends ..it's just that we don't understand your position on a number of issues raised lately, mostly pertaining to firearms. Actually Australians are very much aware of what is happening overseas, many of us originate from other areas of the world, including the US. Can agree to disagree and still remain friends.]]> rdgreen Off Topic Forum Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:07:24 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265910#msg-2265910 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265910#msg-2265910 hpmowog Off Topic Forum Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:12:59 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265829#msg-2265829 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265829#msg-2265829 In reply to # 2265821 by auctionwatch This moment is extremely rare on MGE OT: an event as a result of which people who passionately and definitively argued a certain side of a position have been proven to be unequivocally wrong. It's official - minds have been changed on MGE OT! This deserves a celebration. Pints of Liquid Narcotics all round, please barman! :)-D

I wonder if anyone who falls into such a position has the personal responsibility to admit to themselves that they called it wrong - but far more importantly, to analyse why they took the position that Lance was not a fraud, in spite it clearly being the most likely scenario given the evidence? I would particularly be interested for those who stood behind Lance and passively/aggressively tried to paint his accusers as having "sour grapes", being "jealous" or even "anti-American" to look inward on themselves and question what is faulty about how you think... to move away from pride, prejudice and conspiracy and to embrace evidence-based, logical, rational thinking grounded in reality, not conspiracy.

Why did you call it wrong, and how will you avoid doing so again in the future?
...Hallelujah...X(
"to move away from pride, prejudice and conspiracy and to embrace evidence-based, logical, rational thinking grounded in reality, not conspiracy."

you have just debunked Keynesian economic theory and statist concepts, and embraced free minds and free markets.....and libertarian logic.
....yer a good man pocketwatch......B)-]]> wyatt Off Topic Forum Tue, 15 Jan 2013 08:39:39 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265821#msg-2265821 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265821#msg-2265821 wrong. It's official - minds have been changed on MGE OT! This deserves a celebration. Pints of Liquid Narcotics all round, please barman! :)-D

I wonder if anyone who falls into such a position has the personal responsibility to admit to themselves that they called it wrong - but far more importantly, to analyse why they took the position that Lance was not a fraud, in spite it clearly being the most likely scenario given the evidence? I would particularly be interested for those who stood behind Lance and passively/aggressively tried to paint his accusers as having "sour grapes", being "jealous" or even "anti-American" to look inward on themselves and question what is faulty about how you think... to move away from pride, prejudice and conspiracy and to embrace evidence-based, logical, rational thinking grounded in reality, not conspiracy.

Why did you call it wrong, and how will you avoid doing so again in the future?]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Tue, 15 Jan 2013 08:27:50 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265813#msg-2265813 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265813#msg-2265813 In reply to # 2265622 by racer76

In reply to # 2265523 by rocannon Now that he has confessed, how will the vacant titles be awarded?

The only non-doper in the front pack, of course... Cadel Evans.

And exclusively, here is Lance Armstrong's OPRAH interview...

EXCLUSIVE: LANCE ARMSTRONG EVEN MORE INNOCENT THAN PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/joehildebrand/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/exclusive_armstrong_even_more_innocent_than_previously_thought/
ROTFLMAO, pretty funny, I didn't know Oprey Whifrey was a "leading sports journalist", Eric, does your newpapers just make this bullshit up, as they see fit, LOL.

I'm third generation don't give a crap about this story, but I found the Oprah comment in the Aussie newspaper hilarious, and totally freaking cluless, no wonder you have such low thoughts of us Americans, you have Larry , Curly and Mo reporting, and writing the news :)]]> Speedracer Off Topic Forum Tue, 15 Jan 2013 08:13:20 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265640#msg-2265640 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265640#msg-2265640
BREAKING NEWS10:46 PM ET
Lance Armstrong Admits Doping and Plans to Testify Against Cycling Officials, Sources Say]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Mon, 14 Jan 2013 21:59:45 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265622#msg-2265622 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265622#msg-2265622 In reply to # 2265523 by rocannon Now that he has confessed, how will the vacant titles be awarded?
The only non-doper in the front pack, of course... Cadel Evans.

And exclusively, here is Lance Armstrong's OPRAH interview...

EXCLUSIVE: LANCE ARMSTRONG EVEN MORE INNOCENT THAN PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/joehildebrand/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/exclusive_armstrong_even_more_innocent_than_previously_thought/]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Mon, 14 Jan 2013 21:24:24 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265554#msg-2265554 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265554#msg-2265554 In reply to # 2265523 by rocannon Now that he has confessed, how will the vacant titles be awarded?
They will be awarded to the 27th place finisher.....the first guy that didn't dope!!!!!


That was a joke!!! Don't get your panties in a wad.:)

Donald]]> dmarsingill Off Topic Forum Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:46:52 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265523#msg-2265523 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265523#msg-2265523 rocannon Off Topic Forum Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:47:12 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265324#msg-2265324 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265324#msg-2265324 In reply to # 2263609 by pinkyponk

In reply to # 2263598 by don4975 who cares...yawn

That's the spirit.

Seems like a lot of fuss over a bunch of grown men riding around on a child's toy.
MG owners need to be careful about calling someone else's vehicle a toy. ;)]]> Rod H. Off Topic Forum Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:39:48 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265323#msg-2265323 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265323#msg-2265323 In reply to # 2265312 by Super Speed Demon Lance did not dope, he just got sick of the dopes (see above) saying he did. Lance won the races fair and square and can be proud of it.

No one can take it away from him or the USA.

Europeans are jealous of Americans. Every time they dig themselve in a hole we help them out.

tick tock





If that hasnt been said already....
"No one can take it away from him or the USA."
Hehe, that line is pure class :D How embarrassing... and it will be on the internet forever! :)-D

]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:39:30 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265312#msg-2265312 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265312#msg-2265312
No one can take it away from him or the USA.

Europeans are jealous of Americans. Every time they dig themselve in a hole we help them out.

tick tock





If that hasnt been said already....]]> Super Speed Demon Off Topic Forum Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:26:15 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265293#msg-2265293 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2265293#msg-2265293 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21016122

Gotta admit, the guy has ball

]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:05:08 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2264358#msg-2264358 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2264358#msg-2264358 In reply to # 2264330 by pinkyponk If he broke the law he should be prosecuted... same as anyone else.
Unfortunately it has passed the statute of limitations (he lied in court more than x years ago), so he couldn't be prosecuted for perjury. I don't think I want to see him behind bars, but I personally think he should be stripped of his ill-gotten gains.

Pharmstrong has been hit hard by his loss of sponsors and inability to compete competitively - a sociopath lives to dominate others, after all - hence the cuddly Oprah interview with loving wife standing by and soft-focus shots of him hugging his kids... a PR attempt to become "accepted" again.

If this were a serious interview, Winfrey should be asking the following ten cutting questions. Spread bets that she doesn't broach a single one?

I'd personally add an eleventh question to the following list: Do you think that taking performance-enhancing drugs caused your testicular cancer?

]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:12:34 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2264330#msg-2264330 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2264330#msg-2264330 pinkyponk Off Topic Forum Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:48:40 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2264324#msg-2264324 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2264324#msg-2264324 In reply to # 2263609 by pinkyponk

In reply to # 2263598 by don4975 who cares...yawn

That's the spirit.

Seems like a lot of fuss over a bunch of grown men riding around on a child's toy.
Adrian, don't take don4975 at face value. He apparently cared enough to passionately (albeit fallaciously) defend Pharmstrong a few months back (see above). Since don4975 has been embarrassed by being wrong (yet again) about Lance he's now pretending to not care that his All American Hero has had his wings clipped and is on a crash course with infamy. Don't buy it.

I can understand that not everyone likes sports, or cycling, but to not care about what is potentially the greatest sporting fraud in history? That someone who lied, barefaced, including under oath in a US court, for 15 years to fans and cancer patients alike, whilst making millions of dollars for his personal fortune due to cheating and most chillingly actively seeking out to destroy the lives and careers of those who dared question him? Did you care about Bernie Madoff? Then I can't understand why anyone with any sort of notion of what's "right" could be apathetic about Lance Pharmstrong. People who defraud, cheat and lie should not be allowed to simply get away with it!

How could anyone think anything else? I'm at a loss.]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:29:38 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2263609#msg-2263609 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2263609#msg-2263609 In reply to # 2263598 by don4975 who cares...yawn
That's the spirit.

Seems like a lot of fuss over a bunch of grown men riding around on a child's toy.]]> pinkyponk Off Topic Forum Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:37:41 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2263598#msg-2263598 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2263598#msg-2263598 don4975 Off Topic Forum Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:26:55 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2263586#msg-2263586 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2263586#msg-2263586 Steve64B Off Topic Forum Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:14:49 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2263504#msg-2263504 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2263504#msg-2263504 In reply to # 2096141 by Gerry "Sour grapes" comes to my mind. Lance is likely the best cycler in history and others don't like that for whatever reasons. He has my respect and admiration. Sheryl Crow was not bad prize either...;o)
TOLD

In reply to # 2109067 by MrMarty51 So,with that said, I still hold that lance used NO drugs to get to the top,well except for the drug called "Hard Work" to get there.
I thinking the European counterparts is 'Jealous" because He took away their trophy and their "Pride" and showed them that an "American" can do it even better.
Thats all.

YOU

In reply to # 2152832 by don4975 Lance did not dope, he just got sick of the dopes (see above) saying he did. Lance won the races fair and square and can be proud of it.

No one can take it away from him or the USA.

Europeans are jealous of Americans. Every time they dig themselve in a hole we help them out.

tick tock

SO

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2013/01/11/lance-armstrong-oprah-interview/1828311/

I wonder if any of the trio of "hatriots" quoted above have the personal responsibility to admit they ignored the overwhelming evidence that Pharmstrong was a cheating, lying, bullying scumbag because their windows on reality were clouded by their rampant nationalism? It just had to be a "European conspiracy", didn't it lads? Tell us... how utterly stupid do you feel now?

Chalk up another win for logic and rationalism. You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.

]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:26:06 -0600 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2201786#msg-2201786 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2201786#msg-2201786 In reply to # 2201763 by racer76
Cadel Evans

How do you know he's clean?;)]]> hpmowog Off Topic Forum Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:37:08 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2201763#msg-2201763 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2201763#msg-2201763 In reply to # 2201728 by hpmowog It sounds like they're just going to vacate the titles for those years since it appears that pretty much everybody else who finished towards the front was dirty as well.
Cadel Evans

2007 2nd Overall, Tour de France
2008 2nd Overall, Tour de France
2011 1st Tour de France - GC Overall, 4th Tour de France - Points]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:14:14 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2201728#msg-2201728 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2201728#msg-2201728 hpmowog Off Topic Forum Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:34:11 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2201691#msg-2201691 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2201691#msg-2201691 auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Tue, 23 Oct 2012 07:39:43 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2200733#msg-2200733 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2200733#msg-2200733 http://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sport/world-awaits-international-cycling-union-ruling-on-lance-armstrong-doping-case/story-fndukor0-1226500392122

DISGRACED Lance Armstrong's fate was sealed tonight, as cycling's under-fire world governing body decided to back a life ban for doping and strip him of his record seven Tour de France titles.

The International Cycling Union (UCI) said it supported a decision by the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) to erase the Texan's career and his place in the sport's history.

"We will not appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport and we will recognise the sanction that USADA has imposed," UCI president Pat McQuaid told a news conference in Geneva.

"The UCI will strip him of his seven Tour de France wins. Lance Armstrong has no place in cycling."]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Mon, 22 Oct 2012 06:47:03 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2198715#msg-2198715 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2198715#msg-2198715 melbaver Off Topic Forum Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:40:56 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2198570#msg-2198570 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2198570#msg-2198570 In reply to # 2198494 by auctionwatch

In reply to # 2198486 by melbaver And now USADA are considering amnesty for all their witnesses. We mere mortals will never be let in on the truth of this matter.

I think you've got the wrong end of the Kangaroo... It's WADA who are considering an amnesty, not USADA, in order for doping athletes in cycling (and likely other sports) to come forward and clear their consciences without recrimination. WADA were shocked by the scale of the doping that happened right under the UCI's noses (and even allegedly with their implicit knowledge) and the idea of an amnesty is to "wipe the slate clean" across all sports and start again.

Whether you agree with the idea's effectiveness or not, if it goes ahead and people use the amnesty, having people declare their doping out in the open can only be a victory for cycling and the truth. I don't get how you think it could be otherwise. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/more-sport/wada-to-consider-global-amnesty-for-drug-cheats/story-e6frfglf-1226498924207
You've got to cut Chris some slack - he's not too bright. I mean to say he wants ME as his neighbor for petes sake!]]> sweep Off Topic Forum Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:41:15 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2198494#msg-2198494 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2198494#msg-2198494 In reply to # 2198486 by melbaver And now USADA are considering amnesty for all their witnesses. We mere mortals will never be let in on the truth of this matter.

I think you've got the wrong end of the Kangaroo... It's WADA who are considering an amnesty, not USADA, in order for doping athletes in cycling (and likely other sports) to come forward and clear their consciences without recrimination. WADA were shocked by the scale of the doping that happened right under the UCI's noses (and even allegedly with their implicit knowledge) and the idea of an amnesty is to "wipe the slate clean" across all sports and start again.

Whether you agree with the idea's effectiveness or not, if it goes ahead and people use the amnesty, having people declare their doping out in the open can only be a victory for cycling and the truth. I don't get how you think it could be otherwise. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/more-sport/wada-to-consider-global-amnesty-for-drug-cheats/story-e6frfglf-1226498924207]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Fri, 19 Oct 2012 06:19:39 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2198486#msg-2198486 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2198486#msg-2198486 And now USADA are considering amnesty for all their witnesses. We mere mortals will never be let in on the truth of this matter.]]> melbaver Off Topic Forum Fri, 19 Oct 2012 05:57:34 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2198456#msg-2198456 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2198456#msg-2198456
Pharmstrong has now lost all of his sponsors except for Oakley, who are holding on for the UCI decision (likely a clause written into the contract).

N!ke, Trek, 24-Hour Fitness, Honey Stinger... even the Belgian company that sells psychoactive drugs, Anheuser Busch, has dropped the drug-taking fraud.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-17/nike-ends-contract-with-lance-armstrong-amid-doping-allegations

Anyone care to bet on how many days before Prance's full-blown confession comes out, so that redemption may truly begin?]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Fri, 19 Oct 2012 02:30:42 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197605#msg-2197605 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197605#msg-2197605 racer76 Off Topic Forum Thu, 18 Oct 2012 05:39:03 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197604#msg-2197604 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197604#msg-2197604 Speedracer Off Topic Forum Thu, 18 Oct 2012 05:23:57 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197258#msg-2197258 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197258#msg-2197258
How FACIST of that person (:P)]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:58:29 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197253#msg-2197253 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197253#msg-2197253 pinkyponk Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:56:34 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197213#msg-2197213 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197213#msg-2197213 In reply to # 2197203 by Speedracer I'm not mad, and not easily offended. For the record, I don't dislike you Steve, or anyone who doesn't necessarly support my views, I guess that is the whole point of a free society, to tolerate people who have different viewpoints than you. If you and I ever met in real life, we'd probably be sitting in a pub, telling each other how FOS we thought the other one was, while laughing.
I like to think so Hap :)-D
I don't dislike you either - actually I think we see eye-to-eye on more things than I care to admit to myself ;)

The problem was someone grassed me up to Teacher for the term I used, and I got a telling off from Skye because he didn't know the backstory. So I felt I had to clarify and apologise, more for the mistaken Reporter's sake than you or anyone else.]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:16:43 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197203#msg-2197203 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197203#msg-2197203 In reply to # 2196830 by auctionwatch

In reply to # 2196798 by pinkyponk Wow.

Aha, don't fret... it's just banter ;)

I apologise if I have offended anyone by using the term "Nazi" in my post to Hap. To give context: Hap has playfully called me a "Socialist" or "Commie" and so I have continued the playfulness by calling him a "Nazi"... clearly he is not any more than I am a "Communist", "Fellow Traveler" or "Socialist". I can see how this banter could be misconstrued, so I won't continue it, and whilst I can't force Hap to do the same, I'd appreciate it if he also dropped the playful pejoratives. Cheers! x
I'm not mad, and not easily offended. For the record, I don't dislike you Steve, or anyone who doesn't necessarly support my views, I guess that is the whole point of a free society, to tolerate people who have different viewpoints than you. If you and I ever met in real life, we'd probably be sitting in a pub, telling each other how FOS we thought the other one was, while laughing.]]> Speedracer Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:59:28 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197079#msg-2197079 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197079#msg-2197079 wyatt Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 15:33:59 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197026#msg-2197026 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2197026#msg-2197026 JackMG Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:38:41 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196848#msg-2196848 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196848#msg-2196848 wyatt Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:14:26 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196830#msg-2196830 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196830#msg-2196830 In reply to # 2196798 by pinkyponk Wow.
Aha, don't fret... it's just banter ;)

I apologise if I have offended anyone by using the term "Nazi" in my post to Hap. To give context: Hap has playfully called me a "Socialist" or "Commie" and so I have continued the playfulness by calling him a "Nazi"... clearly he is not any more than I am a "Communist", "Fellow Traveler" or "Socialist". I can see how this banter could be misconstrued, so I won't continue it, and whilst I can't force Hap to do the same, I'd appreciate it if he also dropped the playful pejoratives. Cheers! x]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:53:04 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196798#msg-2196798 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196798#msg-2196798 In reply to # 2196740 by auctionwatch

In reply to # 2196690 by Speedracer As for as the sports being govern by our tax money, and me not being into sports, exactly what the hell does me being into sports have to do with letting these outside santioning bodies govern themselves, we don't need the dumbasses in government to control everything. oh and you're right, I care very little about ball, and stick games, they are children games that have grew up into big money professional sports, let that big money pay for it's own self governing, it's not that important, it just entertainment, no dffernt than a TV show, or movie, and we don't need to use tax dollars to pay for it. I know Steve, growing up a socialist, it must be hard for you to realize we don't need the government to micro manage everything for us, since they seldomly get anything right, your country and it government is sound reminder of this.

I could tell you were not into sports, because you said, "its just entertainment", thats a bit like saying MG is "just a car brand", it misses a whole level of immersion in and passion for the Marque and what it stands for, thats what I could tell you were missing with sports, I presume you support the USA withdrawing from the Olympics, after all, the US government shouldn't uphold global anti doping laws and fund the World Anti-Doping Agency, may as well withdraw from that silly "game" every four years. I know Hap, growing up an American Nazi, it must be hard for you to realise that there is a world outside your own country, and that global cooperation is necessary sometimes, your country and it government is sound reminder of this.

;)
Wow.]]> pinkyponk Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:16:25 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196744#msg-2196744 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196744#msg-2196744 racer76 Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:12:38 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196743#msg-2196743 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196743#msg-2196743 In reply to # 2196701 by racer76 http://nikeinc.com/news/nike-statement-on-lance-armstrong

Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade, it is with great sadness that we have terminated our contract with him. Nike does not condone the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in any manner.

Nike plans to continue support of the Livestrong initiatives created to unite, inspire and empower people affected by cancer.
Big news! Only two days ago they were standing by the Uniballer.
Pharmstrong will be looking at a slew of lawsuits in the coming months... right now I bet he's sweating like a pregnant nun! :)-D]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:09:59 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196740#msg-2196740 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196740#msg-2196740 auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:05:56 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196712#msg-2196712 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196712#msg-2196712 In reply to # 2196703 by sweep

In reply to # 2196669 by Super Speed Demon More Anti American rhetoric WE have come to expect from you.

Lance did not dope, he just got sick of the dopes (see above) saying he did. Lance won the races fair and square and can be proud of it.

No one can take it away from him or the USA.

Europeans are jealous of Americans. Every time they dig themselves in a hole WE help them out.

tick tock

ding dong

knock knock

Exactly Chris.... those comments were originally posted by SFB4975 if you go back in the thread, they are not mine. I posted them again to show how absurd they are.. but WE have come to expect it from him.]]> Super Speed Demon Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:24:29 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196703#msg-2196703 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196703#msg-2196703 In reply to # 2196669 by Super Speed Demon More Anti American rhetoric WE have come to expect from you.

Lance did not dope, he just got sick of the dopes (see above) saying he did. Lance won the races fair and square and can be proud of it.

No one can take it away from him or the USA.

Europeans are jealous of Americans. Every time they dig themselves in a hole WE help them out.

tick tock

ding dong

knock knock
]]> sweep Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:03:20 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196701#msg-2196701 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196701#msg-2196701 http://nikeinc.com/news/nike-statement-on-lance-armstrong

Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade, it is with great sadness that we have terminated our contract with him. Nike does not condone the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in any manner.

Nike plans to continue support of the Livestrong initiatives created to unite, inspire and empower people affected by cancer.]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:01:51 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196690#msg-2196690 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196690#msg-2196690 In reply to # 2192005 by auctionwatch

In reply to # 2191987 by Speedracer I guess my biggest bewilderment of all this, is our government actually spends our tax money on determining if professional athletes are using steroids these days, who the hell cares, they are entertainers, I mean you don't see congress taking away Charlie Sheen's emmys for drug use, we have better things to spend our tax money on, than a bunch of dudes riding bicycles, or throwing a baseball. It's a totla waste of money form where I see, let the professional sport santioning bodies deal with this crap, and the governement stay the hell out of it.

Wow. If you're hopping mad about a measly $10 million a year in federal grants to the non-governmental USADA for it to meet WADA protocol and oversee doping in the US Olympic team and other sports, then you must be having an aneurysm about the c. $300 million per day going down the toilet in Afghanistan.

USADA a waste of money? Maybe you just missed it, but they caught a lying drug cheat who will, in future years, be paying royally for his deception. Mmmm, smell the lawsuit$!

I guess you're not a sports guy.

Yeah, you're right Steve, whats a measly 10 million here, or there. As far as the war is involved, sorry Steve, I don't fit the cookie cutter, sheep herding mold like mostt, while being a republican for the msot part, I was never in favor of this war, or Iraq, they are nothing more than government backed construction jobs, we there to make money plain, and simple, and I don't endorse it, never have. The concept of war these days is BS, I mean Steve, if you pick a fight with me on the street, I not going to argue, and get in pushing battle with you, I'm going to whip your ass so bad, you will never, ever look at me the wrong way again, now that's war. If we, the US want to open a can of whoop-ass on another country now we can do if from the comfort of our homes, without ever putting our troops in harm's way, we can bomb our enemy with drones. The whole idea of war is to defeat your opponent into submission, and thats not the game we are playing today, we're simply blowing shit up, so we can rebuild it, and profit from that.

As for as the sports being governed by our tax money, and me not being into sports, exactly what the hell does me being into sports have to do with letting these outside santioning bodies govern themselves, we don't need the dumbasses in government to control everything. oh and you're right, I care very little about ball, and stick games, they are children games that have grew up into big money professional sports, let that big money pay for it's own self governing, it's not that important, it just entertainment, no dfferent than a TV show, or movie, and we don't need to use tax dollars to pay for it. I know Steve, growing up a socialist, it must be hard for you to realize we don't need the government to micro manage everything for us, since they seldomly get anything right, your country and it's government is a sound reminder of this.]]> Speedracer Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:50:05 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196669#msg-2196669 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196669#msg-2196669
Lance did not dope, he just got sick of the dopes (see above) saying he did. Lance won the races fair and square and can be proud of it.

No one can take it away from him or the USA.

Europeans are jealous of Americans. Every time they dig themselves in a hole WE help them out.

tick tock

ding dong

knock knock]]> Super Speed Demon Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:24:12 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196588#msg-2196588 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196588#msg-2196588
-That doping was widespread in USPS amongst the riders and doctors
-That riders used Dr. Ferrari to dope
-That Lance Armstrong had a business relationship of some form (not necessarily doping) with Dr. Ferrari even after 2004, despite stating otherwise under oath

Is that fair to say? But we do not agree

-That Lance Armstrong was one of the riders who routinely doped
-That Lance Armstrong used his access to Dr. Ferrari to acquire doping services

It's all well and good being conspiratorial about the intentions of those testifying, but at the end of the day you need to put together a hypothesis on what you think really happened. That's what I attempted in my scenario b). Steve, why don't you write your own scenario b) as to what happened at USPS regarding who doped and who didn't, who provided the drugs and who didn't? Then Kurt and I can see where you're coming from.]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:44:00 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196372#msg-2196372 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196372#msg-2196372 In reply to # 2196285 by Steve64B The Huffington story did not contain the full Hincapie transcript, I found it here.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/10/10/hincapie_affidavit.pdf

After reading it I scrolled all the way to the bottom... it's dated September 24, 2012??? Excuse me, why doesn't that make sense in the time line of the case?

It’s also easy to see why the USADA didn't want anyone cross examined! Hincapie provides no direct evidence that he ever witnessed anything. He does however incriminate himself and that whole Lance the Bully thing... I missed that?
Also that date makes perfect sense. He would have had an interview with the USADA. They would have written up the affidavit and he would then have to sign it to ensure it was accurate. The Date is the day he signed the affidavit, not the day he gave the interview.]]> Kurt Breitsprecher Off Topic Forum Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:13:24 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196371#msg-2196371 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196371#msg-2196371
From Hincapie :

"Around this time we got crushed in the Milan-San Remo rance and coming home from the race Lance Armstrong was very upset. As we drove home Lance said, in substance, that, "this is bullshit, people are using stuff" and "we are getting killed." He said, in substance, that he did not want to get crushed any more and something needed to be done. I understood that he meant the team needed to get on EPO."

"Our performance began to improve. Lance started to do better Rider 4 did very well at the Vuelta a Espana. We all routinely acknowledged that the improvements came about through the use of EPO."

"I was generally aware that Lance was using testosterone throughout the time we were teammates. For instance at a race in Spain in 2000 Lance indicated to me he had taken testosterone. Lance told me that he was feeling good and recovered, that he had just taken some "oil". When I heard that drug testing officials were at the hotel, I texted Lance to warn him to avoid the place. As a result, Lance dropped out of the race."

These were a few that I pulled, but he most definitely tells that he knew of and had conversations with Lance about drug use.]]> Kurt Breitsprecher Off Topic Forum Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:10:53 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196285#msg-2196285 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196285#msg-2196285
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/10/10/hincapie_affidavit.pdf

After reading it I scrolled all the way to the bottom... it's dated September 24, 2012??? Excuse me, why doesn't that make sense in the time line of the case?

It’s also easy to see why the USADA didn't want anyone cross examined! Hincapie provides no direct evidence that he ever witnessed anything. He does however incriminate himself and that whole Lance the Bully thing... I missed that?]]> Steve64B Off Topic Forum Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:57:31 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196257#msg-2196257 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2196257#msg-2196257 In reply to # 2195971 by auctionwatch I can see an impasse... at the end of the day, the choice is:

a) to accept the corroborative testimonies of 25+ riders, staff and other witnesses who saw Armstrong doping - including one such testimony from his closest friend and confidant - and "encouraging" (to put it politely) others to dope and use a bent drug doctor about whom Pharmstrong perjured, in order to propel His Sociopathic Self to fame and fortune, whilst destroying and defaming those who dare cross his path; or

b) to maintain that the USADA has created a meticulous conspiracy to wage war against a single man for unknown reasons, somehow magically extracting doping confessions from riders like George Hincapie and then using the threat of banning them for life from the sport (er, even though Hincapie was retiring anyway) to force them to falsely incriminate their best buddy for using drugs when he was actually completely clean and beat all these drug cheats by miles fair and square.

I know which scenario I think is vastly more likely.

Read the rider affidavits and you might come to the same conclusion, too. Start with Hincapie, Lance's Lieutenant and closest friend in the Peloton.
http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Hincapie%2c+George+Affidavit.pdf
Oh Steve… don’t be silly! You may Beg the Question with others, but please don’t try that silly buggers with me. I was born at night, but it wasn’t last night!

With regards to Begged Statement #1… George Hincapie, really? This story in Huffington Post seems a bit odd?!? The Huffington story says that Hinpapie’s testimony (a two page statement) “did not mention Armstrong by name. Neither did statements from three other teammates-turned-witnesses…”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/10/lance-armstrong-teammates-testify-doping-probe_n_1954654.html

Odd isn’t it? Testimony… is that really the right word?

Begged Statement #2… Tygart conducted the “investigation” of a massive doping scandal spanning a decade. And all of his statements focus not on the USPS Scandal, or the Discovery Team Scandal but on one man Lance Armstrong. Was this about the purity of sport? Tygart was after one individual, how else can you explain the results of a doping scandal in which 25+ participants walk?]]> Steve64B Off Topic Forum Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:27:25 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195971#msg-2195971 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195971#msg-2195971
a) to accept the corroborative testimonies of 25+ riders, staff and other witnesses who saw Armstrong doping - including one such testimony from his closest friend and confidant - and "encouraging" (to put it politely) others to dope and use a bent drug doctor about whom Pharmstrong perjured, in order to propel His Sociopathic Self to fame and fortune, whilst destroying and defaming those who dare cross his path; or

b) to maintain that the USADA has created a meticulous conspiracy to wage war against a single man for unknown reasons, somehow magically extracting doping confessions from riders like George Hincapie and then using the threat of banning them for life from the sport (er, even though Hincapie was retiring anyway) to force them to falsely incriminate their best buddy for using drugs when he was actually completely clean and beat all these drug cheats by miles fair and square.

I know which scenario I think is vastly more likely.

Read the rider affidavits and you might come to the same conclusion, too. Start with Hincapie, Lance's Lieutenant and closest friend in the Peloton.
http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Hincapie%2c+George+Affidavit.pdf]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:44:52 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195864#msg-2195864 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195864#msg-2195864 In reply to # 2195169 by auctionwatch As the article mentions, earlier in the year Mercier publicly gave background about the prevalent doping culture at USPS, including the "dots/stars" training regime that the bent doctor would dish out. His public comments corroborate the sworn testimony of other riders in the USADA report. There is no suggestion that the background he provided went into the case against Armstrong, and there is no Mercier affidavit to my knowledge, so your comments are moot.

I mentioned Mercier because you seem to believe that 25+ people all provided false evidence as a result of threat of prosecution/coercion. Mercier never stepped a foot wrong, so why would he step into the public eye as he did earlier this year and lie about the USPS' doping system as he experienced it?

You would have me believe 25+ people are lying in a concerted conspiracy to destroy a single individual.
I would have you believe that it's the single individual who is lying - the drugs cheat Lance Armstrong.

Really now... back in reality, what's the more likely scenario?
You mentioned Mercier because you thought it made your argument stronger. Mercier has nothing in common with the 25 people who were coerced into providing testimony.

One little note… “USPS' doping system” I thought your position was this was the “Lance Armstrong doping system” did something change? Was Armstrong a victim of the USPS system?

Ultimately for me, this isn’t about Lance doping… it’s about a (as you noted) a non-governmental agency which can team with a governmental agency and then use their subpoena power to compel others to provide evidence which the non-governmental agency cannot otherwise obtain.

It’s about a non-governmental agency using the power of that same Governmental agency to coerced testimony from witnesses.

And for me this is the BIG one… presenting the statements of a witness as “fact” without the benefit of the witness ever being cross examined. None of the "evidence" could be challenged in a hearing. That's justice?

How is it that all 25 witnesses admitted they were all involved in a massive doping scandal… and yet, they all walk away with nada, zip, zilch, ZERO punishment? You want to know why they might have said whatever USADA wanted… there’s your answer. They forfeit nothing and carry on with their lives and careers. For most people, that's an easy trade off.]]> Steve64B Off Topic Forum Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:57:19 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195169#msg-2195169 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195169#msg-2195169
I mentioned Mercier because you seem to believe that 25+ people all provided false evidence as a result of threat of prosecution/coercion. Mercier never stepped a foot wrong, so why would he step into the public eye as he did earlier this year and lie about the USPS' doping system as he experienced it?

You would have me believe 25+ people are lying in a concerted conspiracy to destroy a single individual.
I would have you believe that it's the single individual who is lying - the drugs cheat Lance Armstrong.

Really now... back in reality, what's the more likely scenario?]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:52:43 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195106#msg-2195106 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195106#msg-2195106 In reply to # 2193059 by auctionwatch I wonder why Scott Mercier came forward?
Here's a real American hero. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19930514
Well... I must admit that is a very FLASHY headline:

Lance Armstrong case creates an unlikely hero

But, like most British news stories a little overwrought and underserved.

"And what does he think of Armstrong, who joined US Postal the season after he left?"

Wait a minute, run that by me again! The hero of your story didn't ride WITH ARMSTRONG at US Postal? Lance Armstrong wasn't a member of US Postal when Mercier rode for the team!?!

Does the expression WTF ring a bell?

What would the amazing Mr Mercier testifies to... that he knew who Armstrong was?]]> Steve64B Off Topic Forum Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:37:14 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195080#msg-2195080 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195080#msg-2195080 In reply to # 2195067 by wyatt
I'm a keen cyclist - I cover nearly 100km per week at home and do at least one big cycle tour per year where I'll average over 80km a day in the saddle, but from what I've heard in the Pub I would never ever take Kurt on head to head.
...side saddle?
[/quote]

I see where you're goin' with this...]]> pinkyponk Off Topic Forum Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:50:17 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195067#msg-2195067 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195067#msg-2195067 In reply to # 2195061 by auctionwatch

In reply to # 2195035 by pinkyponk I compete in Taekwondo as a second degree black belt. Some consider it extreme. You may have more trouble than you think getting past me on a bicycle.

Aha, that's fighting talk! Game on! ;)

I'm a keen cyclist - I cover nearly 100km per week at home and do at least one big cycle tour per year where I'll average over 80km a day in the saddle, but from what I've heard in the Pub I would never ever take Kurt on head to head.
...side saddle?]]> wyatt Off Topic Forum Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:31:26 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195061#msg-2195061 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195061#msg-2195061 In reply to # 2195035 by pinkyponk I compete in Taekwondo as a second degree black belt. Some consider it extreme. You may have more trouble than you think getting past me on a bicycle.
Aha, that's fighting talk! Game on! ;)

I'm a keen cyclist - I cover nearly 100km per week at home and do at least one big cycle tour per year where I'll average over 80km a day in the saddle, but from what I've heard in the Pub I would never ever take Kurt on head to head.]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:24:21 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195035#msg-2195035 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195035#msg-2195035 In reply to # 2195026 by Kurt Breitsprecher

In reply to # 2194538 by melbaver It looks like the dominoes are really going to start toppling now.................this is going to go International if the claim that 80% of the peloton in 2005 was dirty. Maybe they'll legalise it!!!!

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/10/14/Aussie_cycling_considers_drug_amnesty_805753.html?cid=ZBP_NEWS_L_L1-6_Aussiecyclingconsidersdrugamnesty_RSS_141012

They can't legalize it... I know there is PED use everywhere, but you need to think about the health effects it could have on that 12 year old who wants to make it big. They need to ban it and control it all otherwise young riders and athletes will be ruining their lives for a potential shot at glory and because everyone is doing it, they will need to do it, and start young.

In reply to # 2194213 by pinkyponk I think you should stop watching millionaires chase balls or ride bicycles and go out and DO a sport yourself. Most "sports fans" I see could sure use it.

That is a pretty broad remark. You don't know what Steve does from an athletic point of view... OR me either. However I bet I could out bike/run/swim you any day... or in pretty much any athletic event(I am pretty good at all sports, but I'm not an extreme sport athlete)... That being said i don't know you personally so how do I know your not a pro in some sport... We have our opinions and this is Steve whether he plays or not has no bearing on whether he is allowed to be critical of cheats in any sport. I feel kind of the same way, and am glad that we are seeing most of the story. The evidence wouldn't stand up in a criminal trial, but based on a preponderance of the evidence it shows only one possible outcome... that Lance Doped.
My remark wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. Just the typical sports fan.

I compete in Taekwondo as a second degree black belt. Some consider it extreme. You may have more trouble than you think getting past me on a bicycle.]]> pinkyponk Off Topic Forum Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:56:20 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195026#msg-2195026 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2195026#msg-2195026 In reply to # 2194538 by melbaver It looks like the dominoes are really going to start toppling now.................this is going to go International if the claim that 80% of the peloton in 2005 was dirty. Maybe they'll legalise it!!!!

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/10/14/Aussie_cycling_considers_drug_amnesty_805753.html?cid=ZBP_NEWS_L_L1-6_Aussiecyclingconsidersdrugamnesty_RSS_141012
They can't legalize it... I know there is PED use everywhere, but you need to think about the health effects it could have on that 12 year old who wants to make it big. They need to ban it and control it all otherwise young riders and athletes will be ruining their lives for a potential shot at glory and because everyone is doing it, they will need to do it, and start young.

In reply to # 2194213 by pinkyponk I think you should stop watching millionaires chase balls or ride bicycles and go out and DO a sport yourself. Most "sports fans" I see could sure use it.

That is a pretty broad remark. You don't know what Steve does from an athletic point of view... OR me either. However I bet I could out bike/run/swim you any day... or in pretty much any athletic event(I am pretty good at all sports, but I'm not an extreme sport athlete)... That being said i don't know you personally so how do I know your not a pro in some sport... We have our opinions and this is Steve whether he plays or not has no bearing on whether he is allowed to be critical of cheats in any sport. I feel kind of the same way, and am glad that we are seeing most of the story. The evidence wouldn't stand up in a criminal trial, but based on a preponderance of the evidence it shows only one possible outcome... that Lance Doped.]]> Kurt Breitsprecher Off Topic Forum Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:43:17 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2194915#msg-2194915 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2194915#msg-2194915 In reply to # 2194538 by melbaver this is going to go International
International? As the Tour de France is SO international in every way I think it already has.]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Mon, 15 Oct 2012 06:50:16 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2194538#msg-2194538 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2194538#msg-2194538
http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/10/14/Aussie_cycling_considers_drug_amnesty_805753.html?cid=ZBP_NEWS_L_L1-6_Aussiecyclingconsidersdrugamnesty_RSS_141012]]> melbaver Off Topic Forum Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:36:54 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2194213#msg-2194213 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2194213#msg-2194213 DO a sport yourself. Most "sports fans" I see could sure use it.]]> pinkyponk Off Topic Forum Sun, 14 Oct 2012 07:16:56 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2194148#msg-2194148 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2194148#msg-2194148 In reply to # 2193457 by racer76 And on it goes...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-13/greenedge-director-white-confesses-to-doping/4311738?section=sport

Former Australian Olympian Matthew White has admitted to doping during his cycling career while he was a member of Lance Armstrong's team.

White was a member of Armstrong's US Postal team between 2001 and 2003.

On Saturday evening White confessed in a statement to using performance-enhancing drugs and stepped down as head sporting director at Team GreenEDGE and from his roles with Cycling Australia.

"I am sad to say that I was part of a team where doping formed part of the team's strategy, and I too was involved in that strategy," he said.
So this guy has come forward voluntarily, without the threat of prosecution as the motivating factor?

I wonder why he would concoct such "lies" about the US Postal Team. Obviously he must be jealous of Lance's success, looking to write a book, or some other reason. He couldn't possibly be telling the truth, in line with what 25+ other witnesses have said about the prevalent doping culture at USPS, and wanting to clear his conscience. 8-)]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Sun, 14 Oct 2012 00:27:47 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2193457#msg-2193457 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2193457#msg-2193457
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-13/greenedge-director-white-confesses-to-doping/4311738?section=sport

Former Australian Olympian Matthew White has admitted to doping during his cycling career while he was a member of Lance Armstrong's team.

White was a member of Armstrong's US Postal team between 2001 and 2003.

On Saturday evening White confessed in a statement to using performance-enhancing drugs and stepped down as head sporting director at Team GreenEDGE and from his roles with Cycling Australia.

"I am sad to say that I was part of a team where doping formed part of the team's strategy, and I too was involved in that strategy," he said.]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:41:35 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2193059#msg-2193059 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2193059#msg-2193059 Here's a real American hero. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19930514]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:55:42 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192802#msg-2192802 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192802#msg-2192802
As often as you talk about the intimidation of teammates, it's also been widely reported in the press that all of those who "testified" were informed that the sanctions for "non-cooperation" would be as severe as the sanctions sought on Armstrong.

The carrot for testimony was complete forgiveness!

He'll of a choice, considering that the rest of their evidence was circumstantial at best.]]> Steve64B Off Topic Forum Fri, 12 Oct 2012 09:24:18 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192646#msg-2192646 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192646#msg-2192646 In reply to # 2192554 by Steve64B

In reply to # 2192166 by auctionwatch

In reply to # 2192139 by Steve64B It seems a bit strange to me that you're willing to take the position of a governmental agency at face value. especially when that agency has been shown to operate below the bounderies of good faith?!?

USADA is not a government agency.

I am willing to take the sworn corroborative testimonies of 25+ former teammates, best friends, team officials and others close to Pharmstrong over that of his own.

To believe that 25+ people, including people who were his closest friends who still remain loyal to him, are all lying in unison about his antics - and that is the only alternative hypothesis to "Lance is a drug cheat" - is fantasy in the extreme.

Steve… $9 million of USADA’s $14 million annual budget comes from the Office of National Drug Control Policy. It’s a non-governmental agency in name only.

25+ people were told "if you cooperate, you will not be indicted. If you do not cooperate you will be charged”

In a news release USADA head Tygart said: "It took tremendous courage for the riders on the USPS Team and others to come forward and speak truthfully," but their “truth” could never to be challenged. Their testimony was to be admitted without cross examination, a bedrock of JUSTICE in this Country. Without it a witness will say whatever the prosecutor wants, without fear of recrimination.

They did not “come forward”... as often as you claim Armstrong bullied and intimidated the 25… what exactly did the USADA do to these people?
Charged with what? For example, what could they possibly have charged Armstrong's masseuse with?
Plenty of those in the affidavits came forward willingly with their stories. I think it's more likely that the bargaining chip for those less willing was we'll ban you for less time in the saddle if you tell us the truth.

Armstrong lied under oath (perjury) about his continued relationship with a famous doping Doctor... just why, exactly?

You keep dodging the scenario which you believe to be true, which is that Lance Armstrong was not a doper, and that 25+ people - his friends, teammates, coworkers - have all created a conspiratorial, fanciful web of lies to bring him down. The assertion is absolutely ludicrous.]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Fri, 12 Oct 2012 00:24:43 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192554#msg-2192554 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192554#msg-2192554 In reply to # 2192166 by auctionwatch

In reply to # 2192139 by Steve64B It seems a bit strange to me that you're willing to take the position of a governmental agency at face value. especially when that agency has been shown to operate below the bounderies of good faith?!?

USADA is not a government agency.

I am willing to take the sworn corroborative testimonies of 25+ former teammates, best friends, team officials and others close to Pharmstrong over that of his own.

To believe that 25+ people, including people who were his closest friends who still remain loyal to him, are all lying in unison about his antics - and that is the only alternative hypothesis to "Lance is a drug cheat" - is fantasy in the extreme.


Steve… $9 million of USADA’s $14 million annual budget comes from the Office of National Drug Control Policy. It’s a non-governmental agency in name only.

25+ people were told "if you cooperate, you will not be indicted. If you do not cooperate you will be charged”

In a news release USADA head Tygart said: "It took tremendous courage for the riders on the USPS Team and others to come forward and speak truthfully," but their “truth” could never to be challenged. Their testimony was to be admitted without cross examination, a bedrock of JUSTICE in this Country. Without it a witness will say whatever the prosecutor wants, without fear of recrimination.

They did not “come forward”... as often as you claim Armstrong bullied and intimidated the 25… what exactly did the USADA do to these people?]]> Steve64B Off Topic Forum Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:02:39 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192469#msg-2192469 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192469#msg-2192469
2007 2nd Overall Tour de France
2008 2nd Overall Tour de France
2011 1st Overall Tour de France

"Evans finished eighth in the 2005 Tour but all seven men in front of him (including the winner Armstrong if he is found guilty) were either banned, sanctioned or investigated for drug-related offences at some stage of their careers. But it will not be official because they did not test positive during the 2005 Tour itself".

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/cycling/cadel-evans-could-be-seen-as-the-moral-winner-of-the-2005-tour-de-france/story-fnanprbk-1226457440357

]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Thu, 11 Oct 2012 19:01:25 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192428#msg-2192428 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192428#msg-2192428
This fixation you have for Lance is not only funny but also a bit scary!

Just saying.:)-D]]> peter d Off Topic Forum Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:10:37 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192370#msg-2192370 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192370#msg-2192370 In reply to # 2192353 by hpmowog I think Lance ought to get a job as spokesman for Anheuser-Busch, just to make Steve's head explode:)-D
Er... what's wrong with Anheuser-Busch? That Belgian company makes some great brews.
Now if he suddenly went from being an atheist to being a fundamentalist Christian... that'd make both my heads explode ::o]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:42:00 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192353#msg-2192353 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2093701,2192353#msg-2192353 hpmowog Off Topic Forum Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:24:29 -0500