Apologies in advance because this may be kind of long... So, back when I was a teenager (this would have been around '91-'92), Dad and I had the engine out of the 1500, and were swapping in a spare. I noticed that the forward mounting studs and nuts for the right front lever shock were larger than the rest, so I asked him about it. He told me a story about how he was driving down the road, when all of a sudden, the MGA decided to make an immediate and hard right turn on its own, which he was unable to stop. He spun a loop into the parking lot of a tavern, and miraculously didn't hit anything. Upon examination, he discovered that the studs for the right front shock absorber had pulled out of the frame. He went into the tavern and used their phone to call my grandfather for help. Grandpa eventually showed up with a drill and other tools, and they ran an extension cord into the tavern for power. They repaired the car on the spot, and Dad drove it home that night. He said he never had reason to revisit the repaired area after that. This would have taken place sometime during the mid 60's. So at the time he was telling me about it, the repair had been good for around 25 years of semi-regular use (I last drove the car in 1999). So, what I have, is the standard holes for 3/8" studs in the aft two locations, and oversize holes for 7/16" studs in the forward positions. And of course, a shock absorber with two holes drilled oversize. Here are some pictures... You can't really see the threads in the holes that well, but they are kind of ugly, and not exactly straight. As a matter of fact, they look a lot like they were threaded with hand tools, at night, by flashlight, in the parking lot of a tavern, by a couple of guys who were in a real hurry to get it done and get out of there. So, now I have some decisions to make about what to do. The easiest answer would be to just put it back together the way it is with the oversize studs. But, I'm probably never going to have it stripped down to the bare frame again, or be able to turn it upside down, so I'll never again have the opportunity to make it right if I don't do it now. At least not as easily. And I'm not at all enamored of options such as welding up the holes, redrilling, and retapping. It's possible I could get a machine shop to make and install some special threaded inserts for the front. Not sure if the rears (the normal sized holes) were helicoiled, or what. The threads are pretty deep down in there and it's kind of hard to tell. And I want to make a repair that I can really trust, and that I won't have any reservations about, so what I really want to do is replace the tapped plate entirely, if it can be done. From what I can tell, it looks like that area is a sandwich of three different layers of steel. There is the stamped front cross member section, and on top of that is resistance spot welded another layer of metal that the shock mounts on top of. And underneath the cross member, where the springs rest, is a thicker tapped plate that has the actual threaded holes in it. So, the holes for the studs go in for a ways before they hit the actual threads. I'm pretty sure I can get in there with the frame inverted, and remove the welds for the tapping plate, using an air angle grinder with a cut-off wheel. And I'm also pretty sure that I have another front cross member that I can dissect to get a replacement tapping plate. My brother and I bought a parts car a few years back; the frame was very badly rusted so I eventually cut it up and only saved a few sections that I thought might be useful. If I still have it, it's currently buried under about 5 feet of snow in my back yard. Otherwise, it shouldn't be all that difficult to fabricate my own replacement plate if I have to. I was just wondering if anybody else had any thoughts or suggestions, and whether anyone has heard of the shock mounts failing in this manner before? My dad was certain that the car had been raced before he bought it in '63, and he was never exactly easy on it, so it lived a pretty hard life. The swivel pin and one of the lower control arms on the other side were bent also, so it must have taken a hit or two. Also, the oversize holes in the shock absorber body itself are not an issue because I have extra shocks that I can have overhauled instead of the altered one. http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021722#msg-2021722 Tue, 21 May 2013 10:52:58 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2097462#msg-2097462 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2097462#msg-2097462 Oxide MGA Forum Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:45:59 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2097213#msg-2097213 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2097213#msg-2097213 Gary E MGA Forum Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:02:31 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2097211#msg-2097211 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2097211#msg-2097211

http://catalog.automotivefasteners.com/viewitems/threaded-fasteners-rods-and-studs/studs-2075]]> Gary E MGA Forum Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:00:52 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2097156#msg-2097156 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2097156#msg-2097156 Oxide MGA Forum Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:07:49 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2096649#msg-2096649 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2096649#msg-2096649 Neil MG MGA Forum Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:09:25 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2096638#msg-2096638 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2096638#msg-2096638


It was a lot of work, but I'm glad I did it this way over the other alternatives. Making an entirely new plate from steel wouldn't have been too terribly difficult, but having the other cross member to experiment with let me establish that I could get the mangled plate out of my frame cleanly, without doing any further damage.]]> Oxide MGA Forum Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:18:59 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2095038#msg-2095038 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2095038#msg-2095038
Welded the front two holes that were boogered by tapping oversize up on the bottom, and ground them flat. Then I had my brother come by Friday evening and we turned the frame right side up again. Ground a little and then finished welding them up some more to make sure they were relatively free of voids. There's really not a lot of benefit to this part of the operation but what the hey... Anything worth doing is worth overdoing, and when it's done there will be little to no evidence of the repair other than these pictures:



Next, the welds were ground smooth, to prepare for re-drilling. For a drill guide, I hacked the upper portion of the donor crossmember apart where I took the plate from, and trimmed everything off but the two remaining layers of the shock mount pad. I bolted this to the frame using the 4 remaining bolt locations (2 aft shock mount holes plus the upper spring retainer holes), and re-drilled the holes using a freshly re-sharpened 3/8" high speed drill bit. People sometimes assume it's going to be trouble drilling through MIG weld bead, but a sharp bit, constant pressure, and appropriate speed go a long way towards minimizing drama.



And here is the almost finished shock mount:



About all that really remains is to turn the frame back over yet again, and weld the good plate in. Then start working my way to the rear. There's a fair amount of rust repair needed in the cockpit section, and the bottom is dented pretty badly in several places. Tom and I scraped a huge amount of crap (mixed road tar, dirt, oil, and who knows what else) off the bottom the other night and there's still more on there. Thinking about taking it to be steam cleaned before I blast the rusty sections to see how many holes I can blow through them. I had hoped to get the frame done before fall but I think I'm probably going to be working on it longer than that before it is ready for final blasting and paint or powder coat.]]> Oxide MGA Forum Sat, 16 Jun 2012 03:33:31 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2063564#msg-2063564 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2063564#msg-2063564 In reply to # 2063553 by AlaskaTRX You know... given how the "simple" new exhaust install is going, that does not surprise me one bit.
Just a couple of abused threads, and at least there aren't busted studs in there. Probably won't even have to helicoil them like I did for my A. No biggie. It is simple enough; it's just that sometimes simple things are also hard. Now the spark plug issue with your truck, that is a real booger. What an idiotic design!]]> Oxide MGA Forum Thu, 10 May 2012 03:39:44 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2063553#msg-2063553 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2063553#msg-2063553 In reply to # 2059190 by Oxide I sent this thread link to my uncle, and this was his reply:

Quote: Hi Del- I've never heard this story before. but I know Dad was always willing to drop what he was doing to help one of his kids out of a jam. I had a friend that had a TD and he was very hard on it. He had the engine out enough he told me he could get it out in half an hour- he may have said an hour. Anyway I was impressed.

I'm a little worried what you and Tom might find in the TD. I know a couple of the water pump bolts had been replaced with lag screws!! I tried to rethread the holes but as I recall there wasn't much left for threads. Don't think it leaks though.

You know... given how the "simple" new exhaust install is going, that does not surprise me one bit.]]> AlaskaTRX MGA Forum Thu, 10 May 2012 01:49:08 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059355#msg-2059355 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059355#msg-2059355
JIM in NH]]> JimNH MGA Forum Sat, 05 May 2012 17:58:27 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059190#msg-2059190 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059190#msg-2059190

Quote: Hi Del- I've never heard this story before. but I know Dad was always willing to drop what he was doing to help one of his kids out of a jam. I had a friend that had a TD and he was very hard on it. He had the engine out enough he told me he could get it out in half an hour- he may have said an hour. Anyway I was impressed.

I'm a little worried what you and Tom might find in the TD. I know a couple of the water pump bolts had been replaced with lag screws!! I tried to rethread the holes but as I recall there wasn't much left for threads. Don't think it leaks though.

]]> Oxide MGA Forum Sat, 05 May 2012 14:14:29 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059187#msg-2059187 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059187#msg-2059187 In reply to # 2058934 by Bandersnatch If you weld up the holes in the cross-member, can't you just use the (replacement) shock as a drilling guide? I'm assuming you'll be replacing the shock since it was drilled out also.
I could. But I've also got the rest of the donor crossmember to hack up and use as a drill guide, and it also has the holes for the upper coil spring retainer, so I can use more hardware for bolting the guide in place, for a more positive alignment than from using just the other two shock mount holes.

In reply to # 2058945 by JimNH Are the top plate holes through-holes, or are they also threaded? I think they're just through - holes, in which case you won't have to worry about threading them to line up with the threads in the tapping plate. I was worried that the tapping plate was in place and then they were tapped at the same time, which would be harder.

They are through holes only.

In reply to # 2059111 by TeamEvil If you weren't returning everything to stock, think it would be possible to drill out the threads, run some correct length bolts up through the holes and weld the bolt heads to the inside of that plate, then tack the plate in place? Wondering because my frame really doesn't have any threads left on the shock mounts at all. Seems like a bolt and welded head would hold up forever.

Nope. The underside of the plate has to remain flat, since that is where the top of the coil spring rests. No bolt heads allowed. For what it's worth, if you can get the plates out of your frame, it shouldn't be all that difficult to make new ones, or have them made. Or you can do like I did, and extract them from a scrapped frame.]]> Oxide MGA Forum Sat, 05 May 2012 14:11:30 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059182#msg-2059182 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059182#msg-2059182
Yeah, you're right. I would be for sure.]]> TeamEvil MGA Forum Sat, 05 May 2012 13:57:29 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059166#msg-2059166 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059166#msg-2059166
JIM in NH]]> JimNH MGA Forum Sat, 05 May 2012 13:43:15 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059111#msg-2059111 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2059111#msg-2059111
I wish that I was that sort of guy, 'cept I'm not.


If you weren't returning everything to stock, think it would be possible to drill out the threads, run some correct length bolts up through the holes and weld the bolt heads to the inside of that plate, then tack the plate in place? Wondering because my frame really doesn't have any threads left on the shock mounts at all. Seems like a bolt and welded head would hold up forever.]]> TeamEvil MGA Forum Sat, 05 May 2012 12:32:39 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2058945#msg-2058945 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2058945#msg-2058945
Great write-up - thanks!

I replaced the studs with the grade 8 bolt kit from Moss and am very satisfied with the quality of the hardware I received. Also makes it easier to remove the shock with the body installed, if necessary.

JIM in NH]]> JimNH MGA Forum Sat, 05 May 2012 08:12:56 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2058934#msg-2058934 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2058934#msg-2058934
If you weld up the holes in the cross-member, can't you just use the (replacement) shock as a drilling guide? I'm assuming you'll be replacing the shock since it was drilled out also.

Very nice work, you went above and beyond what a lot of folks would have done.]]> Bandersnatch MGA Forum Sat, 05 May 2012 07:55:37 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2058804#msg-2058804 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2058804#msg-2058804 restoration and not MG repair, I'm having a go at making it like it was when it left the factory. The only real way to accomplish that, is to remove the tapped plate from the cross member, and replace it with one that isn't stripped out. As of a couple weeks ago, the snow in my backyard melted enough so that I could retrieve the donor cross member. When I scrapped the frame, I cut off anything with useful looking bracketry and saved it, which turns out to have been among my better decisions. Here is the cross member in all of its rusty glory:



And here is the plate that needs to be removed. Note the 4 short welds holding it in place. There is a fifth weld on the back edge that is not accessible. These are not structural welds; they are only there to hold the plate in place until the shock is installed, at which time the studs bear the load of holding the sandwich together.



Cutting the welds. I was able to get the outer welds with the air grinder, but I had to finish the inboard welds with a Dremel tool with an angle drive due to not enough clearance. I could have done it all with the Dremel, but it would have taken longer, and if I'd had a shorter mandrel for the air tool it could have done the whole thing too. I was able to do it without doing any significant damage to the cross member (the cut off wheels barely marked it in a few places), so I now know that I can repeat the same process on my frame to remove the damaged plate. The purpose of this exercise was twofold; to obtain an undamaged plate, and to verify the process. Otherwise it would be back to the inserts.



Next picture is the plate removed from the cross member. I threaded a couple of used studs back into the holes and smacked them with a hammer in order to break what was left of the welds after grinding. After removing the studs, I threaded a regular bolt into one of the outboard holes from the bottom, and got under it with a pry bar and pried the end of the plate up, and then knocked it back down with the hammer. Did that a couple of times, and the 5th weld that was not accessible with the grinder gave way. It (like the others) wasn't much of a weld, and the cross member will never miss it once the repair is done.



Implements of destruction:



Here is the plate deburred, media blasted, threads chased, and primed with weld-through primer on the side facing the cross member (only):



Next step is to repeat the extraction process on my frame. Now that I know I can do it without messing up the cross member, I wouldn't necessarily have needed a donor frame, since it would be simple enough to make a new piece out of plate stock. I've also been mulling over an idea in my head for restoring the holes in the shock mounting surface (upper plate of the sandwich). Welding up the holes will be simple enough, and if I can remove that plate from the donor cross member, I should be able to use it as a drilling guide to make sure the holes are properly located. Then the tapped plate can be bolted in place, and the actual welding should be anti-climactic.]]> Oxide MGA Forum Fri, 04 May 2012 23:53:31 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2022044#msg-2022044 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2022044#msg-2022044
The MSC parts should work, http://McMaster-Carr also has the required inserts, 94165A455 or 90245A074, and you can use standard drill and tap for installation.]]> barneymg MGA Forum Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:09:50 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021881#msg-2021881 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021881#msg-2021881
When I did my car I found welsh plugs made of nickels from 1962 and 1966.

I left them that way.

Cheers,
Christopher

]]> Donovan MGA Forum Sun, 25 Mar 2012 10:20:49 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021843#msg-2021843 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021843#msg-2021843
JIM in NH]]> JimNH MGA Forum Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:35:00 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021820#msg-2021820 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021820#msg-2021820 In reply to # 2021791 by ghnl I like the tavern-fix story and would thus be tempted to leave it. The down side is that any replacement shock would have to be drilled out and that might make them worthless as rebuildable cores.
It is a good story. But I can still tell the story, even if I fix the frame. And I'll have pictures along with a messed up shock should I need to prove it for some reason.

Quote: If you cannot find a stepped stud perhaps a thread insert would work?

That's a distinct possibility. MSC has something that should work for $1.62 each. It would certainly be easier than doing a plate transplant.]]> Oxide MGA Forum Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:02:17 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021791#msg-2021791 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021791#msg-2021791
If you cannot find a stepped stud perhaps a thread insert would work?

]]> ghnl MGA Forum Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:36:48 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021787#msg-2021787 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021787#msg-2021787
Another question I forgot to ask; any experience or problems reported with the current crop of replacement studs for this application that are available from Moss, et al? I've grown kind of leery of repro hardware since I snapped a new head stud when torquing it down (ended up using the ARP kit as a result).]]> Oxide MGA Forum Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:33:48 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021746#msg-2021746 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021746#msg-2021746

I'd leave it. Get your dad and head out to the nearest tavern! :)-D]]> Blueosprey90 MGA Forum Sun, 25 Mar 2012 07:51:01 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021737#msg-2021737 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021737#msg-2021737 GILMGA MGA Forum Sun, 25 Mar 2012 07:44:23 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021722#msg-2021722 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722,2021722#msg-2021722
So, back when I was a teenager (this would have been around '91-'92), Dad and I had the engine out of the 1500, and were swapping in a spare. I noticed that the forward mounting studs and nuts for the right front lever shock were larger than the rest, so I asked him about it. He told me a story about how he was driving down the road, when all of a sudden, the MGA decided to make an immediate and hard right turn on its own, which he was unable to stop. He spun a loop into the parking lot of a tavern, and miraculously didn't hit anything. Upon examination, he discovered that the studs for the right front shock absorber had pulled out of the frame.

He went into the tavern and used their phone to call my grandfather for help. Grandpa eventually showed up with a drill and other tools, and they ran an extension cord into the tavern for power. They repaired the car on the spot, and Dad drove it home that night. He said he never had reason to revisit the repaired area after that. This would have taken place sometime during the mid 60's. So at the time he was telling me about it, the repair had been good for around 25 years of semi-regular use (I last drove the car in 1999).

So, what I have, is the standard holes for 3/8" studs in the aft two locations, and oversize holes for 7/16" studs in the forward positions. And of course, a shock absorber with two holes drilled oversize. Here are some pictures... You can't really see the threads in the holes that well, but they are kind of ugly, and not exactly straight. As a matter of fact, they look a lot like they were threaded with hand tools, at night, by flashlight, in the parking lot of a tavern, by a couple of guys who were in a real hurry to get it done and get out of there.







So, now I have some decisions to make about what to do. The easiest answer would be to just put it back together the way it is with the oversize studs. But, I'm probably never going to have it stripped down to the bare frame again, or be able to turn it upside down, so I'll never again have the opportunity to make it right if I don't do it now. At least not as easily. And I'm not at all enamored of options such as welding up the holes, redrilling, and retapping. It's possible I could get a machine shop to make and install some special threaded inserts for the front. Not sure if the rears (the normal sized holes) were helicoiled, or what. The threads are pretty deep down in there and it's kind of hard to tell. And I want to make a repair that I can really trust, and that I won't have any reservations about, so what I really want to do is replace the tapped plate entirely, if it can be done.

From what I can tell, it looks like that area is a sandwich of three different layers of steel. There is the stamped front cross member section, and on top of that is resistance spot welded another layer of metal that the shock mounts on top of. And underneath the cross member, where the springs rest, is a thicker tapped plate that has the actual threaded holes in it. So, the holes for the studs go in for a ways before they hit the actual threads.

I'm pretty sure I can get in there with the frame inverted, and remove the welds for the tapping plate, using an air angle grinder with a cut-off wheel. And I'm also pretty sure that I have another front cross member that I can dissect to get a replacement tapping plate. My brother and I bought a parts car a few years back; the frame was very badly rusted so I eventually cut it up and only saved a few sections that I thought might be useful. If I still have it, it's currently buried under about 5 feet of snow in my back yard. Otherwise, it shouldn't be all that difficult to fabricate my own replacement plate if I have to.

I was just wondering if anybody else had any thoughts or suggestions, and whether anyone has heard of the shock mounts failing in this manner before? My dad was certain that the car had been raced before he bought it in '63, and he was never exactly easy on it, so it lived a pretty hard life. The swivel pin and one of the lower control arms on the other side were bent also, so it must have taken a hit or two. Also, the oversize holes in the shock absorber body itself are not an issue because I have extra shocks that I can have overhauled instead of the altered one.]]> Oxide MGA Forum Sun, 25 Mar 2012 07:19:57 -0500