Adjusting Toe In

I rebuilt my steering rack this winter and was considering an easier way to set the Toe In than on my back with a tape measure.
I was in a local garage (old fashion kind where the guys drink beer and drive flat head powered hot rods).
They had a 29 Ford roadster on the floor with strings tied to the inside of the back wheel spokes (wire wheels), wrapped around the tire and forward past the front wheels to a 2x4 fastened to the wall in front of the car. The strings where fastened to the 2x4 so they touched the front of the back wheel and ran past the centre of the front wheel. They measured from the string to the front and back of the front wheels, the difference was the toe in value for that side. Interesting they set the toe in at 1/8, the same as our Bs. Simple, easy, accurate and once the 2x4 is in place easy to reuse.

I will try it shortly but it just made so much sense. Will add pictures later.

Anyone else heard of this?

All sorts of methods. FYI toe in spec is 1/16" - 3/32"
Scuff gauge works for me. Push one wheel on it and read the value, no strings attached. >:D<

The book says to have toe-in between 1/32 and 1/16.

robert, i just checked on the scuff gauge. kwik-ezee said they were $225.00::o. but they are not making them anymore. if that is what you were talking about.

"r&r" ? i guess i'm a bit slow.

Strings are a great way to set toe, especially if you have IRS. Racers will "string" their cars from a datum established from the centerline of the suspension pickup points so all corners of the car are square to the vehicle centerline. The problem is that it is time consuming to set up the strings. You have to locate the centerline then set up the outer strings equidistant and parallel to the centerline. After you do that, you can't move the car without setting it up all over again.

I am building a string setup into my car so it will be quick to set up and be repeatable. It will also allow the car to be moved without disturbing the strings. After adjusting the toe you should roll the car back and forth to settle the suspension and then remeasure.

I welded 1/2" nuts onto the bumper support so that I can screw in the brackets that hold the tubing front and rear. The brackets are designed to hold the tube at hub height at each end of the car. The tubes are 1/2" electrical conduit that have a groove turned at the center and grooves at each end to locate the side strings. The end grooves are equidistant from the centerline, both front and rear tubes are identical. To set it up the first time I put the car on a level surface. I set up a string on the centerline of the car that was equidistant from the front and rear inner pickup points of the suspension (I have IRS but a solid axle car could use the front spring hangars). I then adjusted the tubes back and forth in the brackets so that the centerline groove was directly over the centerline string (use a plumb bob) and locked the tubes in position with the thumb screws. When I had the tubes centered perfectly, I welded a washer to the tube on the driver's side of the bracket so that every time I assemble the rig it will be perfectly oriented to the centerline of the car. The car will then not have to be on a perfectly level surface to do the check.

You then run strings between the outer grooves and you have a perfect rectangle and you can measure directly from the string to the wheel rim. If you want to be deadly accurate you can spin each wheel and scribe a line on the tread. The toe specification is actually measured at the OD of the tire. If you know that your wheels run true you can do the math for what the measurement at the rim should be since it is much easier and quicker. You can roll the car back and forth to recheck your adjustments without disturbing the strings.

This is good for the autocrossers who want to dial in some toe out for the event and then set toe in for the drive home.

I will need to check as I do not know what a scuff gauge is.
I read somewhere that for radial tires the toe in should be 1/8 instead of the 1/16 to 1/32 for bias ply.
Can anyone confirm/correct me.

Jim, that is very interesting.
I wonder if one cold be made up that could be moved from car to car.
I will think about that.

Jim, I was thinking along the lines of the 2x4 but using your 1/2 inch conduit.
Each time I would have to set up to the back wheel first then measure the front.
Must be an easier, repeatable thing I can make that others could use.
Back in the 60s we had a square tube with adjustable legs and a fixed bracket on one end and a movable bracket on the other.
The thing was setup so the fixed bracket hit the mid point of the outside sidewall of the front tire and the movable one was fixed with a butterfly nut against the same point on the other front tire.
Move to the front of the wheels and measure the difference with a steel ruler.
Difference = toe in.
I wil have to think about that one a bit more.
Love the ideas from this place.

I do my own string alignments as well, nothing attached to the car, I made 4 hub center height platforms , if you will, but it cold be 4 jackstands as well, I measure the track F&R, it's not always the same on given car, then set the strings from the hub centers, once I have the car squared in the strings, I measure from the front and rear of wheel rims for toe readings. I use 4 squares of aluminum plate, I use two under each of the front wheels , with a mixture of grease and WD40 sandwiched between the paltes for cheap turntables (you can do the same thing 4 pieces of commerical tile). I have a very simple and cheap bubble camber gauge, for using on the cars I can adjust camber on.

You can do a alignment with very common and cheap tools if you understand what you are doing, we did this very thing at our last car club tech session.

I just take it for a drive. Adjust adjust. then I drive it on tram tracks, if it is squeaking on the steel, there is too much toe in.

I use a spring loaded curtain rod. Line up front and rear tires on driver side with laser leverler. Insert curtain rod on front rims same distant from floor,mark rim for reference, mark where slide edge is on curtain rod with then pencil,
rotate wheel to rear of then insert the curtain rod. Mark where the slide on rod is. The difference is toe. Adjust the oposite from side that is aligend with rear. Check front and rear wheel alignment with laser. Hope stering wheel is centered.

Should you inquire of a Hyper-Miler the suggestion would be to set -0- [ZERO] .. less tire wear no scrub better fuel mileage ..
there are new autos set to Zero ..

it will make them a wee bit twitchy

with a tendency to dart.. and not track back in corner..

,,

i set and suggest set [this said with a million miles behind the wheel]

to the minimum measurable toe -in for best response , tire wear and fuel efficiency.. minimum measurable on my device is 1/16 IN ..


GOSH 1/16 IN is Factory Spec ..

what do you Know .What do you think . perhaps those Abington Chaps were far ahead of the time.......

A tick of toe in is a very predictable feel, and this set up feels more comforatble to most folks, and there is really no other reason to set up a street MGB any differently. On race cars as driver get more experienced, they will often play alot with toe settings, zero will cause less resistence in straight line, but you have to mind the car a bit more on the straights, as it can roam a bit, then some drivers play with just a tick of toe out, this makes the car turn in incredibly quick, probaby so quick it would scare the living crap out of most folks at speed. Overal a tick of toein , gives most folks the feel they fell most comfortable with when cornering and driving in a straight line.

The main reason for toe-in is to account for the "slop" in the suspension and steering joints when the car is moving. On a rear wheel drive car you use toe-in to compensate for the rolling friction on the tires loading the suspension and steering joints. The theory (also in practice) is that toeing the tires in a little the will compensate for them being pulled back close to zero when driving down the road.

Front wheel drive cars generally are the opposite and use toe-out. Being that the front wheels pull the car forward, the "slop" in suspension and steering joints would permit the tires to go to a zero to toe-in position when driving down the road.

Ok being rather new to MG.. I take it that the average retail Garage wont do an MG alignment these days.. or is everyone here just cheap? LOL

If you do a quick search, you can find this thread, where Lloyd gives a quick lesson in setting toe-in:
http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?1,1555441,1555441#msg-1555441

D

As many of you know, I now work for Hunter Engineering, the people who make alignment and balance equipment. I'm not suggesting people go out and pay a fortune for alignments as in most cases all our cars need is the toe setting.

However, if you suspect you may have some kind of suspension issue an alignment check could be worthwhile. Hunter equipment checks that the caster and camber are as they should be, it also checks the steering and will tell you if your axle is mounted straight and centred.

If anything is wrong with those settings you would then have a fair idea what is wrong with your suspension, whether it simply be worn bushings or maybe a bent A-arm.

If you do decide to have an alignment check, negotiate a price for a check only, tell them you just want to know the condition of the suspension, you don't want any adjustments. A check on even old equipment should take no more than 10 minutes, the latest equipment takes only 90 seconds.