Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG : MGA Forum : The MG Experience

Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #1
three5bangers Steve M Valhalla, NY, USA Sign in to contact 1962 MG MGA MkII 1983 Audi Coupe GT 1983 Audi Quattro 1984 Ford Crown Victoria & more	Topic Creator (OP) Dec 18, 2014 10:47 AM Joined 9 years ago 481 Posts

One must take arc 1 as a pre-req to MIG/TIG , I'm kind of clueless but Classes start Jan 5 and they are probably closed all x-mas week so I have to jump start/rush a decision. There is probably a spring semester starting in March. I took an autobody class here 10 years ago - it as just so-so. So it's important to start with Arc? . Arc 1 is followed immedately with Arc 2 , then MIG/Tig is 3rd in sequence but Arc 2 is not needed for MIG/TIG class.

WeldingClasses.pdf 105.4 KB

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #2
kerieric Eric B Ocean Springs, MS, USA Sign in to contact 1960 MG MGA 1600	Dec 18, 2014 10:57 AM Joined 10 years ago 19 Posts

If you are, as you mentioned, "kind of clueless", I think Arc 1 would give you a good basis as far as clearances, what a bead should look like, types of steel, etc. While you may never arc weld again after the class, I think you would gain something from it. I don't see any reason to take arc 2 if your plans are car restoration and sheet metal work.

If you want to jump into MIG immediately, it might be worth a phone call to the head of the department to get his opinion, based on what you intend to do with the class.

My 2 cents.

Nothing is impossible for the person who doesn't have to do it.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #3
bobs77vet bob K. northern Va, VA, USA Sign in to contact	Dec 18, 2014 11:00 AM Top Contributor Joined 11 years ago 8,258 Posts

if you want to do any tig welding then the ARC class is very important since you know what melting metal looks like (puddling), i think its a good class since it will cover all the basics of joining metals together and what good penetration looks like.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #4
Be Coming Kelvin Dodd So. Calif., USA Sign in to contact 1957 MG MGA 1957 MG MGA Coupe 1958 MG Magnette 1958 MG Magnette ZB & more	Dec 18, 2014 01:04 PM Top Contributor Joined 17 years ago 7,210 Posts

Steve.

Many years ago I went the same route and took Arc1 and Arc 2 classes through a local community college. Today this curriculum is a bit dated for hobbyist usage, as operating a MIG welder on auto projects is much easier than doing high quality, high penetration arc welding of steel fabrication and pipe work.

I would absolutely recommend taking the Arc 1 class, as Eric and Bob have stated you need to learn the basics which are going to be safety, terminology, oxy-acetylene use and how to keep your hand steady.

With the Arc 1 under your belt, I would suggest that you can jump right into working with your own MIG machine. MIG welding is much easier than Arc and you will want to emphasize practicing with your own machine. The best way to do this is to cut a bunch of 4" x 2" plates of thin metal, then work on getting a good even bead and penetration.

The Arc 1 basics will always be there, especially since you get to use the oxy/acc set. See if you can get your instructor to show the ropes of gas welding. This is a very good introduction to TIG welding without the associated equipment cost.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #5
Oxide Del Rawlins (Disabled) Disabled Account, Antarctica Sign in to contact 1959 MG MGA	Dec 18, 2014 03:12 PM Joined 12 years ago 1,556 Posts

That curriculum might be okay for somebody looking to start a career in pipe fitting or similar, but I think it is exactly wrong for the sorts of welding that hobbyist types do. The stick welding skills that you'll get from "Arc I" aren't as directly applicable to the equipment that most of us will be using in restoration work as it might seem, despite being an electical based system. It's got some applicability in terms of building jigs, etc, but most of us will find the MIG to be better for that. The only reason I even have that capability in my shop, is that the TIG welder doubles as a stick box. I haven't used it that way since I bought the MIG.

What is really important in our world, is the ability to weld thin pieces together. And if you want to get good at that, the best way is to first master the oxy-acetylene torch. Since every shop needs a gas torch for cutting and heating anyway, learn to use it for welding, also. That will teach you heat control in a way that none of the electrical methods really will, and gas torch skills will transfer directly to TIG equipment. When I got the TIG unit, I had been welding with the gas torch for several years, and I found I was basically able to use it right away, because skills for the two are about the same, with the source of heat being the main difference..

MIG is kind of its own beast, but I think the skills required are more directly related to torch welding than to stick. With MIG it's not difficult to lay down a bead that looks OK, but has no real strength, so it's good to have mastered one of the other methods first before doing any structural welding with the MIG.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-12-18 03:16 PM by Oxide.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #6
ghnl Eric Russell Mebane, NC, USA Sign in to contact 1961 MG MGA "Calvin"	Dec 18, 2014 05:39 PM Top Contributor Joined 12 years ago 12,733 Posts

Many years ago I took an evening welding classes at the local Vo-Tech school. We started with gas welding then arc then MIG. IIRC, we got to try a little TIG, too.

I'd agree that learning the different techiniques is probably worth the effort. Once you get enrolled, talk to the instructor and let him/her know your goals. Most of the other students in the classes I took were going for certification &/or seeking employment as a welder. Once I told our instructor I was 'just a hobbyist' it was no problem getting lots of practice in the techniques I needed to learn.

Eric Russell ~ Mebane, NC
1961 MGA #61, 1981 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 1984 Alfa Romeo Spider, 1991 Honda ST1100

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #7
damnfingers Gene Gillam Saucier, MS, USA Sign in to contact 1949 MG TC 1960 MG MGA 1600 Coupe	Dec 18, 2014 06:10 PM Joined 14 years ago 550 Posts

I don't agree that arc welding needs to be mastered prior to learning how to mig or tig. I did take an arc welding class at vo-tech prior to beginning mig and there was nothing that I learned in arc that was usable in mig other than you're not shocked (nerve type shock) when the arc is struck. I would have much rather not wasted my time on arc at all.

You might want to talk to the instructor (or school) and explain you're going to use it for auto body repair at your home and have no need of learning to arc weld.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #8
59mgaguy John Terschak Wakeman, OH, USA Sign in to contact 1930 Ford Model A "Jenny" 1959 MG 14/28 "Jessie" 1974 MG MGB "Oooops"	Dec 18, 2014 07:19 PM Top Contributor Joined 13 years ago 7,589 Posts

I suggest you ask your instructor first if you will be welding 18 gauge sheet metal with the MIG & TIG. A couple of years ago I saw that the local college offered a MIG welding class. When I asked a person in admissions I was told that they taught did teach welding sheet metal in the MIG class. After laying down $350 for the class I found out that the thinnest metal we were going to weld was about 1/4 inch thick.

The College's MIG welders didn't go that low to be able to weld 18 gauge, But I did bring my own MIG and sheet metal in. Kind of self taught myself.

So ask. It might save you a little $$$.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #9
alex77 alex alcoser monte alto, TX, USA Sign in to contact 1969 Triumph TR6 1977 MG MGB "Harley Quinn" 1979 Triumph TR7	Dec 18, 2014 07:50 PM Joined 16 years ago 1,539 Posts

At my school, you are able to audit the class. When you audit, you do not have to take the tests since you do not get credit. Since it is not for credit, you do not need the pre-reqs. It's also cheaper in tuition. This is meant for people who want to learn more for their own knowlege instead of a career. The course material is the same otherwise. See if your schools offers this alternative.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #10
three5bangers Steve M Valhalla, NY, USA Sign in to contact 1962 MG MGA MkII 1983 Audi Coupe GT 1983 Audi Quattro 1984 Ford Crown Victoria & more	Topic Creator (OP) Dec 18, 2014 10:32 PM Joined 9 years ago 481 Posts

Thanks for the tips. I think I did some arc welding in 1971 , as I asked my high school shop teacher about welding. He put me on independent study so to speak - I read a handout he gave me and got some instruction. I think there was a endless supply of classmates who dropped by asking me to melt pennys. So I had a rod and when I touched it down sparks flew (43 years ago -that's the best I can do). I might have welded some plates together. So I did some practice work.

One big issue is I'm not impressed with this place - it's a big bureaucracy. They seem inflexible, my prior class there was so-so. Maybe I'll just poke around youtube and think about the April semester. Maybe I'll peek into the Jan class and see what's up. During the day the place is a juvenile high school so there is nobody to speak with. The classes are only 4 weeks long - a semester would be much better.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-12-18 10:35 PM by three5bangers.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #11
Oxide Del Rawlins (Disabled) Disabled Account, Antarctica Sign in to contact 1959 MG MGA	Dec 19, 2014 02:11 AM Joined 12 years ago 1,556 Posts

You could probably learn almost as much, if not more, from Youtube at a cost of zero dollars...

About the only thing you won't get, is an instructor looking over your shoulder, telling you what you are doing wrong.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #12
sh8kin denis nalepa red bank,new jersey, USA Sign in to contact 1958 Austin-Healey Bugeye Sprite 1959 MG MGA 1500 1960 MG MGA 1600 1960 MG MGA 1600	Dec 19, 2014 08:15 AM Joined 13 years ago 141 Posts

Start with coat hanger and a torch that is really down to basics. Then arc (stick) mig and tig. Hours will teach you.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #13
ghnl Eric Russell Mebane, NC, USA Sign in to contact 1961 MG MGA "Calvin"	Dec 19, 2014 08:47 AM Top Contributor Joined 12 years ago 12,733 Posts

If you have access to a MIG welder (use shielding gas - not flux-core 'gasless') and an automatic helmet plus an asosrtment of scrap material, you can probably teach yourself after reading/watching videos. The second video above is from Welding Tips & Tricks - a good place to start.

Most of the welding we want to do involves thin sheet metal ~ 18-20 ga. Here's a page with some info about welding thin sheet metal: MIG Welding Techniques.

Eric Russell ~ Mebane, NC
1961 MGA #61, 1981 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 1984 Alfa Romeo Spider, 1991 Honda ST1100

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #14
bobs77vet bob K. northern Va, VA, USA Sign in to contact	Dec 19, 2014 11:13 AM Top Contributor Joined 11 years ago 8,258 Posts

do you inherently know not to use oil around pure oxygen? if not take the class. its easy to wake up dead around electric welding and O/A welding rigs.....the MIG shielding gasses are not going to kill you unless it falls over on you or the regulator end gets knocked off. its worth taking the class for the safety aspects alone.

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Re: Welding classes start with Arc 1 as pre-req to MIG/TIG #15
Neil MG Neil McGurk Cumbria, UK Sign in to contact 1956 Morris Minor 1958 MG MGA 1960 MG MGA 1961 MG MGA & more	Dec 19, 2014 01:59 PM Joined 16 years ago 2,067 Posts

There are definitely many ways to go about learning to weld!

I started with a cheap stick welder over 30 years ago, no previous experience and struggled to get patches to stick! Then my friend and I invested in a cheap MIG welder and couldn't believe how much easier it was. Later I bought a decent MIG welder and realised that was better still. Of course over that time my skill had improved a bit too. Then came the internet and I could see how to do things properly and just how good things can be done. (Although it did kind of made me wish I had been on a course all those years ago!)

If you are not sure about the classes then use the internet as your teacher. There is an excellent website and forum here: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/ as well as dozens of Youtube videos.

I would recommend getting clued up on the different kind of welders too. It is soooo much easier with a good welder. The key is to have a unit that goes down to lower settings to easily weld thin sheet. Good quality components mean you never have to touch the machine except the setting dials.

It depends how confident and competent you are in the workshop generally, but if you already feel at home with metalwork and power tools then half an hour of practice together with 15 mins of expert advice and you are good to go.

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