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Oiling and banked oval

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professor Leigh Urquhart
Victoria, B.C., Canada   CAN
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Hi folks,


Has anybody run on a high banked oval, driving a wet sump MGB, and had to modify the pan, or oil pump to prevent oil starvation while on the incline. Our present oil pan and pick up have been extended 2 inches, holding 6 quarts, with a windage sceen . Also has a 1970's Huffaker style horizontal plate in the pan and we have a 2 quart accusump. Looking forward for info from any one who has run an MGB on high banks .

Thank you,
Leigh
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fast-MG.com Dave Headley
Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA   USA
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Leigh, I've modified a couple of customer pans with a "Fontana" fin for running at Cali. Speedway. This after reports of oil pressure concerns.

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dcharnet Donald Charnetski
NA, NA, USA   USA
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I hope to run some SCCA events at Iowa Speedway next year and if I do I will put one of Dave's sumps with a Fontana Fin on my Fab-Tek B motor (really an SBC). This is part oval--part infield road course like Daytona. I attended the event last year as a spectator and talked to lots of racers about setup and oiling. Most of the entrants were in Miati, and they all used Accusumps with no special sump mods. None of them had any oil pressure issues. I have an Accusump, but it is used only for cold-motor pre-lube and is then shut off, per directions from Dave based on how he has designed his sump. Most racers do not use the Accusump that way. My sense is that if you leave the Accusump open, you should be fine, depending perhaps on the angle of the bank and how long you will be on it.

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professor Leigh Urquhart
Victoria, B.C., Canada   CAN
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Thank you Dave and Don. I can always count on excellent advice from this forum. We hope to run at Auto Club Speedway this coming Fall and without a dry sump, we have to do what is necessary to keep oil pressure up. As this is a combined road course and oval, I would hope the accusump should provide some coverage for 15-60 seconds of low oil pressure. That is if the accusump is working properly, as in not leaking and with the 7-10 lb pre charge. I am told the oval portion of the course is about 2/5 of the total length.
I am sure adding a Fontana Fin is wise for added protection. The name alone has a good ring, maybe I will start a seafood restaurant, if I can use the name. Nice to hear the Miata's not having an issue. Maybe their stock sump has a few factory goodies?

Leigh

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dcharnet Donald Charnetski
NA, NA, USA   USA
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Leigh:

Good question about how the "standard Miata race sump," if there is such a thing, is configured. Maybe Fred M. can comment. Perhaps the standard Miata race approach already accommodates use on an oval, and that the Accusump was not really necessary on those cars.

The Fab-Tek sump made by Dave has a larger capacity than most, for one thing, but beyond that I do not know how much internal design on that or any MGB race pan is devoted to oil displacement which is both lateral and horizontal; and whether B sump design parameters for road racing differ from and are in tension with oval racing requirements.

Apparently not, if Dave can add a Fontana Fin and his motor is still happy in the corkscrew at Grattan and the carousel at Road America; although his has only recently been available may still be in the beta test phase. (This is why he pays me $1,000 per run session, which I believe is the renegotiated number for 2016---right Dave?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-12 06:49 AM by dcharnet.

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fast-MG.com Dave Headley
Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA   USA
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"Fontana" fin tested and validated by two west coast racers, Don. No further contract testing needed from Iowasmoking smiley.

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ghnl Eric Russell
Mebane, NC, USA   USA
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1961 MG MGA "Calvin"
Google is been no help so I appeal to a higher authority - what is a Fontana Fin?



Eric Russell ~ Mebane, NC
1961 MGA #61, 1981 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 1984 Alfa Romeo Spider, 1991 Honda ST1100

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fast-MG.com Dave Headley
Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA   USA
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Eric, sorry for any name based confusion. It's just a name I gave to a flat piece of sheet metal, about 2" wide welded to the RH edge of the pan flush with the sealing flange. It is intended to keep oil from climbing up the side of the engine under high G LH turns as encountered when driving CCW on an oval track. The West coast racers I referenced race on the speedway in "Fontana" Ca.

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ghnl Eric Russell
Mebane, NC, USA   USA
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1961 MG MGA "Calvin"
So with the car sitting level the fin is horizontal?

On a high-banked oval is there that much sideways centrifugal force?



Eric Russell ~ Mebane, NC
1961 MGA #61, 1981 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 1984 Alfa Romeo Spider, 1991 Honda ST1100

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dcharnet Donald Charnetski
NA, NA, USA   USA
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I thought that "Dave's Damn" had more appeal than "Fontana Fin" but apparently not.

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fast-MG.com Dave Headley
Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA   USA
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Don, it's Dave's dam dammit. But that brings up the question Don, are you a Fin or a Pole? or?smoking smiley (all in fun folks, no hate mail please)

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Jerry Lamb Avatar
Oswego, IL, USA   USA
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I have had my car on several fairly high banked ovals; Daytona, Iowa Speedway and Gateway in St. Louis. No oiling problems at any of these tracks. For Daytona I had a pan that Dave made for me. At both Iowa and Gateway I had a pan similar to a Huffaker pan, but with the addition of a crank scraper. The scraper I believe would act in a similar fashion to the Fontana fin described above.
My car does have an accusump. For the ovals I used the accusump to tell if I was having an oiling problem. Even if I didn't notice a pressure drop on the gages, if the accusump was hot when coming off the track I would know that pressure had dropped and the accusump was replenished with hot oil. The accusump never got hot at any of these tracks.

Jerry

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Speedracer Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Hap Waldrop
Taylors, SC, USA   USA
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1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
In reply to # 3193991 by Jerry Lamb I have had my car on several fairly high banked ovals; Daytona, Iowa Speedway and Gateway in St. Louis. No oiling problems at any of these tracks. For Daytona I had a pan that Dave made for me. At both Iowa and Gateway I had a pan similar to a Huffaker pan, but with the addition of a crank scraper. The scraper I believe would act in a similar fashion to the Fontana fin described above.
My car does have an accusump. For the ovals I used the accusump to tell if I was having an oiling problem. Even if I didn't notice a pressure drop on the gages, if the accusump was hot when coming off the track I would know that pressure had dropped and the accusump was replenished with hot oil. The accusump never got hot at any of these tracks.

Jerry

Same deal as Jerry, I never had any issues with #9 at Daytona, or Charlotte, Huffaker style pan, and accusump. Same deal with the Midget using the WC super comp pan. Hopefully I never waste any time in the Biscuit racing on rovals, been there, done that smiling smiley



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Website: www.acmespeedshop.com
hapwaldrop@acmespeedshop.com


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dcharnet Donald Charnetski
NA, NA, USA   USA
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Running low on the track would provide some amelioration for any pressure problems and is the shortest way around.

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professor Leigh Urquhart
Victoria, B.C., Canada   CAN
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Very informative discussion everyone. - thank you. One more question and please bear with me for asking. With the sump mods shown in the attached diagram - that is extended pan, Huffaker surge baffle with a windage screen mounted 2 inches above the baflfle, 2 quart accusump. Should we add the Headley dam /Fontana Fin as well to prevent oil climbing the pan side, or is the existing pan enough protection. Will be running at.Auto Club Speedway. I am reading that Jerry and Hap are saying that the fin or scraper might not be necessary, but maybe a good idea just in case? Dave , thanks for sharing your expertise on the Fontana fin - much appreciated. Please see attached Huffaker pan schematic we are using.

Leigh


Attachments:
Oil Sump with baffle.jpg    32.1 KB
Oil Sump with baffle.jpg

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