MG Engine Swaps Forum

My 2.8L TBI V6 came out of a 1987 S-10 and uses the OBDI. Probably a silly question, but is there a way to convert to OBDII without going into any great length or cost?

<Caveat; I've been laid up sick for almost a week and all this laying around not able to do anything has got me to thinking>

If there is no easy or quick way, does anyone know of a good OBDI program (for dummies) for my laptop? I have a patch cord which plugs into the OBDI and USB port.

Keep in mind, I'm not a geek (no offence to geeks) and don't know programming or the inner workings of an ECM.

Thank you all for any information.

OBDII generally requires more sensors and a different wiring subharness than OBD1 due to the different ECM connectors and and additional functionality of OBDII. I would in general say it is moderately difficult and somewhat costly change, but is not uncommon amongs some Muscle Car groups. The added functionality of the ECM, along with better ability to reprogram have driven some to backdate ecm's.

I guess my first question would be, is what are you trying to accomplish?

What Greg said.

I have a '95 Camaro Z28 engine that is OBD1. The later Camaro LT1's are OBD2 and tuners often switch to an OBD1 PCM to make tuning easier. The OBD2 was an emissions driven change, not a performance enhancement.

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Jim

"If you want me to agree with you then we would both be wrong"

'66 MGB widened 11" with supercharged LT1 Chevy and 6 speed, C4 Corvette suspension
Pictures here Part 1 http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,7581
Continued in Part 2 http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,22422
Continued in Part 3 http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,33108
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Continued in Part 6 http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,61672

Thanks guys.

What am I trying to accomplish? Well, nothing really, other than I am under the assumption that there are more programs for OBDII????. I can't seem to find anything that isn't too complex for the OBDI that has detailed instructions on what to do and how to do it. Remember, I'm a greenhorn here. This is my first foray into this sort of thing. I would just like to start with something that would tell me what my engine is doing and explain what it all means. Is there anything out there, that doesn't cost a fortune, that can help me with that?

I would be pretty hesitant to suggest the change from OBDI to OBDII based on what you just stated.

Excuse me if I am underestimating your understanding of ECM’s and how they work, but I do think you have a misunderstanding their operation. Simplifying the deal, there are not a lot of ‘Programs’ out there, there are several depending on ecm selected. The changes are to the tune (pulse width and timing) , and switching features in the ECM on and off. You establish an injector pulse width based on the manifold pressure (throttle position), and RPM. These are adjusted by measuring air temperature (density) and water temp (cold enrichment) and excess oxygen in the exhaust. There is also a timing component based on manifold pressure and rpm, again modified by the air temp and water temp. Imagine a 3D spreadsheet and each cell has a pulse width value based on how much oxygen the engine is consuming. I think what you’re trying to do is understand what the input values (temp, rpm, load, etc) have to do with output values (injector pulse width and spark timing), I think

If I wanted to achieve what I think you want (to see pulse width and timing vs. load and environmental conditions), maybe you want to talk to someone like DIY Autotune and have them build you a Plug and Play (P-N-P), so you can replace your existing ECM with a Megasquirt. Use Megasquirt specific tuning software to change pulse width and timing while data logging or while someone else is driving and you’re watching the computer screen. You can adjust injector pulse with and timing at a specific cell and determine what impact that has on drivability.

I don’t know what you consider a fortune (my $$ value of a fortune has changed A LOT in the last 10 years), but I think that may be the least expensive way to get an education. I think the whole P-N-P system would be less than setting up an OBDII system

Or not

OBd2 had more diagnostics and inputs for abs epc serial bus etc. You are better off with the oBD1 and simple o2 pre sensor etc far fewer things to command the tuning. You don't need an input telling the engine to go into closed loop after reaching max cat converter temp

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I don't want to 'tune' or 'program' anything.......yet

I just want a program (computer program) that will allow me to hook up to the OBDI, display whatever values or data there are and tell me what they mean, and what changing a value would do to the setup.

I did get a program (WinALDL 109F) last fall and tried to run it, but it's looking for a serial port and my cable is USB. Of course, there were no instructions to guide one along.

Maybe I'm asking for too much??? Right now I have a laptop, a cable and nothing else. I'd like something that will display anything on my laptop just to get a start.

Thanks.

http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/dfi-ecm/616106-usb-aldl-cable-winaldl.html

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/121470.html

http://www.pattonmachine.com/TBI-Data-Logging.htm

There is info out there. Just have to dig for it. Or, switch to TunerPro. It's free, as well.

http://tunerpro.net/

Ron, have you done this?

plaSerial+CablesN82E16812107108&gclid=Cj0KEQjw0fOoBRDn88Pol8bqhN0BEiQARGVJKhUpVn2AxBqv3huU4HKvHf-4phKFBBPBq6Pg57asd8AaAsBt8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds" class="no-preview" target="_blank" >http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812107108&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PCplaSerial+CablesN82E16812107108&gclid=Cj0KEQjw0fOoBRDn88Pol8bqhN0BEiQARGVJKhUpVn2AxBqv3huU4HKvHf-4phKFBBPBq6Pg57asd8AaAsBt8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thanks guys.

Charles, when I click on your link I get an error message stating that they're having problems with their server. Will check back later.

Carl, I checked into those forums and didn't find anything I didn't already know or stuff I don't want to know, at least at this time. Also, with all the stupid ads they have there, it's very unenjoyable to navigate.

The Patton Machine site is interesting and will investigate further when the time comes.

TunerPro I already have downloaded, but when I looked for definitions for my ECM it wasn't listed, although, the next generation was so I'm not sure whether I can use it.

Definitely some more research is required.

Thanks again.

Ron,

TunerPro is worth a try. It's really good software. I believe you'll have a reasonable chance of getting data logging working with the datastream definition located here. Won't hurt to try at least. You'll also need to install the FTDI USB to serial driver to get your cable to be recognized by TunerPro. It should be fairly easy to setup but let me know if you run into any issues.

Scott

Thanks Scott. I'll give it a shot. I hope to have the car back on the ground in the next couple of weeks.

I'm using TunerPro RT on my PCM from a 94 Firebird and it works great. Also good tutorials available to help you get started. This stuff is all new to me as well so some reading required to learn how it works. You will need other software if you want to upload/download (change PCM calibration) BIN files to your PCM.

Ron, google serial to usb converter and you will get scads of interfaces. I clicked the link and it appears to work here. CS