MGA Forum

Hello all,
I am writing to ask about a situation that I am experiencing with a 1960 MGA, 1600 that I recently picked up and am in the process of restoring it. I have rebuilt the engine, and the hydraulic systems all of which have been no problem at all. So my next area of focus went to the suspension. When I got the car, the front right wheel was leaning out at the top from the wheel well. Since the car has Kingpins I naturally assumed that once I began work on the front end I'd find that the car had either a really bad control arm or seriously failed Kingpin. But as it turns out this is not the case. When one looks at the right kingpin it is perfectly straight up and down. What I mean is that the bottom and the top mounts are inline with each other. Compared to the left side which is mounted perfectly with the top of the kingpin leaning in toward the car centerline and the bottom of the kingpin pushed out from the centerline, resulting in the spindle and wheel being straight up and down, as it should be.

So I began to look over the entire front suspension, concentrating on the right, looking for evidence of a bent frame or bent/broken control arm, possibly a broken shock, I replaced the coil spring since the car was going to get new springs anyway but , of course that didn't help. Because the Kingpin is pushed in at the bottom I thought , just maybe the bushings were completely worn, but they were not. I replaced the bushings anyway and still the same situation, Kingpin inclination is "zero". I studied the manuals that I have and on line to see if possibly the MG might have an adjustment that I might be overlooking, but there is not, aside from the standard Toe adjustment.

I have taken a few pics of the right side suspension. I haven't downloaded them from my camera yet. I'll try to get them up here tomorrow. But meanwhile, I am coming to the more experienced MG pros to ask if anyone has experienced this with any other MG you might have worked on. To me, it appears as if the car took a serious hit to the right front wheel, but my experience has shown me that with Kingpins if that were the case, most often I'd find a bent frame. Basic trueing measurements (very simplistic but gives a good wag) show the frame is square and true. In my 41 years as a certified mechanic, I can say with confidence that I have seen many "goofed-up" kingpins but this one has me stumped.

Any thoughts? I know it'd be easier to visualize with a pic,and I'll get one up here, but for the moment, just imagine looking at the front right and seeing the Kingpin standing perfectly straight up and down and the spindle bent down.

Thanks to you all for your assistance.

Hi Carl,
Welcome to the forum. I am just south of you in Eden. There is also another member that has two As in Eden.

Pics would be good. We like pics.

I haven't done the suspension on my A yet so I might not be much help but will help if I can.

I'm sure after you post pics other members well be along to help.

Jeff

First step ...The Guru..


http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/susp1.htm

Like the others who have posted, I have not taken the front end apart.

But is it possible that you spindle is installed upside down. See post 12 & 13 here. I'm referring to part #30 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,3029429

Trunnion or trunnions spun around the wrong way? Also, Like mentioned above. see the Guru's site.

---

"Time flies like an arrow......Fruit flies like a banana"

Hi everyone, thanks to all of you who have responded.

Here's a bit of info that I learned from the individual who I bought the car from. When I was putting the car on the flatbed to get it to my garage, I happened to ask the owner how the right front wheel got in the condition it is. he said he had no idea. He was driving the car pretty much regularly up until the time he put it in storage. He had the car placed on jack stands and left it in his garage that way for almost 15 years. He said when he took the car off the blocks to put it on a car trailer because he was relocating to his current residence, the right wheel was in the condition that it is now. He said the car has never been in a wreck, it was never driven over high curbs or parking blocks, and I asked if the car possibly fell from the jack while it was being lowered to the ground. He said he didn't think so, but he wasn't the person who took the car down. I did check the wire wheel rim and the spindle and rotor for possible signs of damage from a fall, but I don't see any.

Based on the brief history, all the parts are original and have never been changed, which is really apparent if you were here with me looking this gem over. I have the original maintenance manual for the car plus a Haynes manual which I am using to determine the if the parts are actually original or proper and at this point they all are. To give you an idea of how original the parts are the tie rod ends are rusted into the mount sockets. So rusted that even a manual Tie-rod end removal fork couldn't break them loose. I'll be working these once again this evening.

I am stumped at how the lower control arm can be moved in 2.5" toward the centerline of the car, resulting in the Kingpin being perfectly vertical and the mount at the frame and the bushings not show any sign of damage or movement.

Does anyone know if there is an adjustment at the lower control arm mount at the frame? I do not see where there is one, but over my years I learned that every type car comes with it's unique qualities.

Thank you all again.--carl

PS: I'll get some pics out here by tomorrow.

Does your front end look like this drawing from the shop manual? Note the upper trunion's connection to the upper A-arm (shock arms) is outboard of the kingpin. And the lower trunion's connection to the lower A-arms/spring pan is inboard of the kingpin. Turn either one 180 degrees and the kingpin would be vertical and the tire leaning out at the top.

---

Eric Russell ~ Mebane, NC
1961 MGA #61, 1981 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 1984 Alfa Romeo Spider, 1991 Honda ST1100

very strange indeed.....does the king pin have full rotation left and right with no binding?.....bent king pins will make full lock to lock turning very hard.

i cant believe the car would drive and steer normally if the trunnions were turn around......what if he accidentally moved only the top trunnion when he replaced a shock?

Please do not use the word kingpin. This car does not have kingpins. It has trunnions and swivel links. Someone probably has it assembled wrong. Pictures would answer the question quickly.

Good Day everyone.
As I promised , this morning I have uploaded some pics of the car's right wheel and the Kingpin and control arms. When you look at the pics, you'll see the right wheel very plainly leaning out at the top and in at the bottom. I provided some shots of the KINGPIN so you can get an idea of it's "zero" inclination. In other words the Kingpin is almost perfectly straight up and down , versus the normal inclination of the top of the pin closer to the car centerline and the bottom being farther out from the car centerline.

Gentlemen, I am aware that you might want to believe that the parts were installed wrong, but trust me, these parts are original (except the rotor). These parts have never been replaced in this car. As a matter of fact, the work I am doing to this car is the most major maintenance this car has had since it was built. I spoke to the original owner last night, once again just to verify that the past maintenance of this car and he told me that aside from the normal servicing, (i.e. oil, coolant, brakes etc...) he has never had anything done to the vehicle. That includes the exhaust system which is bad, but still installed.

I am ASE certified and have been for 41 years. I am not unfamiliar with automotive suspension types, I have changed many, many Kingpins over my years and as I mentioned in my earlier post, many times when I have seen a wheel in the condition that this right wheel is in I am conditioned to believe that I can expect some major front end work, such as bent control arms or broken kingpin or , worst case twisted or bent frame. I am coming to you all because this is the first MG I have ever work on, but not my first British made vehicle, just last year I finished restoring a 1951 Jaguar MK120. That was an interesting restoration, very cool car. Three years ago I restored a 1971 Mini Cooper. Now I have a 1960 MG and the restoration is going well all except this right front wheel issue.

To answer the question about steering and the swivel of the spindle. Aside from the fact that the wheel leans out causing the steering to be a bit tight to the left it seems to be fine. But I have not driven the car under it's own power yet, I am still finishing the engine rebuild. But I am sure that if I drive it like it is, the ride will be pretty tough to control.

I am pretty sure I know what I will have to do to restore the proper KPI (Kingpin Inclination, or if you prefer SIA) to this vehicle, but before I begin straightening, heating, bending, jigging, etc....I wanted to ask the folks who are more familiar with the MG and see if anyone has ever seen this before on an MGA and if so what was the problem.

Again thank you all for any suggestions you can offer. But please gentlemen, lets not suggest parts installed wrong, or wrong parts, because that is not the case. And terms are not that important at this point, KPI, SIA, Kingpin, swivel/trunion whatever we prefer, I wish only to learn if there is an adjustment I don't know about or can I expect major work ahead of me?

Thank you all...Carl

Upper trunnion is on backward. The flat should be resting on the bump stop at full droop. Compare to Eric's shop drawing above.

Load up the suspension (jack under the lower control arm), remove the upper pivot bolt, spin the trunnion 180 degrees and reassemble.

Eric's correct. Look closely at the drawing at the upper trunnion. You've got it 180 degrees out on your car. Remove and reverse it and you should be good to go..

Steve is right. Look at the upper trunnion on the other side and you will see.

some body replaced the front shock and screwed it up