General non-MG related discussions. No politics here please!!
JANE FONDA MEMORIAL WALL---VERY HEARTWARMING.
After more than 40 years the Viet Nam Veterans of the United States of America raised
a phenomenal amount of money to memorialize another one of Hollywood's loyal(?)
American citizens who went out of her way to aid and abet the enemy and congratulate them
on their treatment of U.S. POW's. This memorial says it all.
I got teary eyed when I saw this.
Support our troops. Remember our Veterans.
At least it still gets mentioned.
My "war" (sorry Police Action) has been forgottenalmost to
the point of what war? (for those who do not remember KOREA)
My answer to the Police Action statement was
"A lot of people were killed playing cops and robbers".
But that was a loooong time ago.
Sorry old wounds never seem to heal completely.
George Herschell
There were lots of strong and varied opinions about the Vietnam War. I am not sure that there will ever be agreement on how it was conducted and who was or should have been involved.
Drafting people to fight in that war just made it all the more controversial. I was only young but I remember the partying in the streets when an election here brought in a party that ended conscription 1n 1972 (one of their first acts) so that many of my brothers and sisters friends could come out of hiding after "dodging the draft".
"The draft is white people sending black people to fight yellow people to protect the country they stole from red people". - James Rado
That James Rado quote is so far from the truth that I can't believe
anyone would even think about it let alone believe it. I was drafted and
I'm not black. And in the outfit I was in, in Korea (1953/1954)I think
the ratio was more whites than blacks. So that comment is quite aways off.
I'm not trying to stir up trouble but being there I saw first hand the
ratio of black to white. That's not someones idea but my first hand observation.
George Herschell
As someone once said (and Samuel E Clemmons erroneously attributed to Disraeli )
There's lies, damn lies and then statistics. People can bend stats to fit their "facts" like the guy now claiming 97% of all untreatable cancer patients had root canal. Be that as it may, what's the causality?
In recent years the incidence of a certain rare brain tumour was reported to be 3000% higher in this area where the Seatac fifth runway is going. The govt pish poshed it by blending the stats with statewide numbers and said "See? It's just average" and that was that.
Jane Fonda -- won't find any fans of her in my family! As for the other comments ya might want to Google search "Project 100,000" which happened during the Vietnam period. I've heard the hubby and those who served with him talk about it many times and how they had to cover for those in the program. Still hear it mentioned ever now and then. Last time was at one of our car shows when hubby and another Veteran were talking about those days.
Naomi
Jane Fonda is not a name mentioned in your family, because she spoke to the enemy?
Yet you celebrate the biggest traitor in American history
http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?47,1954195,1954195#msg-1954195
Project 100,000
A 1995 review of book by McNamara in the Washington Monthly severely criticized the project, writing, "the program offered a one-way ticket to Vietnam, where these men fought and died in disproportionate numbers...the men of the "Moron Corps" provided the necessary cannon fodder to help evade the political horror of dropping student deferments or calling up the reserves, which were sanctuaries for the lily-white."
[url=http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php]
[/url] Jane Fonda And Joan Baez
Post has been removed by the administrator due to violation of the Terms of Service.
Nathan Hale, yes, CT hero, American hero
Guess we have different definitions of hero. Nathan Hale, traitor to England, yes, hero to America, yes. Where is it we live again?
Lee, was a traitor of huge proportions, committing treason against America. Killed many Americas as well.
I see your logic.
Hale gave his life for America
Lee went to war against America
"...with charity toward all, and malice toward none."
Words to live by.
As for the Rado quote, I don't see as much authenticity in what it says as it was meant to imply.
At least in the part of the military I was in back then (US Army), there was a fair cross section of people from all over this country - mostly because of the draft. Many abuses by judges put folks in the service as an option to jail time, and yes, indeed there were a lot of black and other "people of color". But there were also plenty of whites from all sorts of demographics as well, but the most meaningful demographic being that they were available, and either volunteered or were drafted, and mostly either didn't fight the draft, or had no good way available to evade it.
In 1969, the country was in no mood, as I recall, to allow too many people to evade service, and many draft boards made it their duty to see that equity meant you got your equal chance to serve. Many of them had served in the big one, WW2,and saw no reason for young folks not to be in uniform. And as I have said before, for myself, at least, it was as close to an egalitarian experience as most folks within the services ever got as citizens of this country. Perhaps the only time they got to rub shoulders with a lot of folks they would have never taken the opportunity to have encountered otherwise.
Were they or did they become some sort of homogenous admixture of patriots fighting the Red Menace? No, not really. There were plenty who protested the War and a good many other aspects of American life. But they served and some lived to tell about it. And far more never got to Vietnam or saw combat - that is just how many people were mobilized at any given point during that war. That is why some of us who were in at that time identify ourselves as Vietnam Era vets, but not Vietnam Vets. There is a difference. And most of the folks who come through my door as a Veteran's Services Officer are those guys who were NOT in Vietnam or on the ground in Desert Storm. I get a few combat vets, but mostly, if you go out and study the mobilization records for the services, you will find that even tho there was a very terrible price to pay for that war as recorded on the real Wall, a lot of folks in the services at that time never made it over there, not even as support. And did some of them and even some of those in 'Nam itself applaud what the Jane Fondas and Joan Baez's did? Indeed they did, often to the consternation of their peers and the military. And many of them came home and changed their tunes as time went by and became much different men than they had been boys. But not all of those who went were boys or changed their minds.
http://www.uswings.com/vietnamfacts.asp
http://www.citizen-soldier.org/cortright.html
And some believe they see an alter ego in Henry's portrayal of Tom Joad. I wonder what Henry would say, given that he and Henry Morgan were pretty close pals.
You think she was right?
http://pierretristam.com/Bobst/07/wf031907.htm
Letting men die because you are afraid of impeachment?
USA
USA
USA
USA
USA
58K men gave their lives for what again?
We're #1
Let me grab my Chinese made American flag and feel proud..
Many draft dodgers and anti war supporters are the biggest pro war fanatics now..
I guess if you were against the war then, you were anti American? an appeaser?
Isn't it sad that our own people have done more harm to this country than our enemies?
Who has caused the most economic damage?
Our companies that ship jobs out of the country or a bunch of Iraqis?
Our banks who bet on us losing so they could make money?
Yet there is all this vitriol about a girl who 45 years ago saw the truth about an illegal war.
You do know the Gulf of Tonkin incident didn't happen, don't you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODxnUrFX6k
Howard.. yes of course, the Gulf of Tonkin was a non event, lied about, never happened, a non event that was used to sway public opinion into an illegal, unwinnable war.. 58K men died for this lie..
dont question it though
be a good citizen, listen to the leaders who will mold your mind like clay... they know better, they will send other men to fight... trust them..
Obey
Obey
USA
USA
USA
Well.. the Muslims of course destroyed our country.. thats why we need to eradicate them.. Sharia law will be imposed.. they are responsible for the bankrupting of this country, they are responsible for corporate greed and outsourcing, they are solely responsible for the decay of our infrastructure, they are responsible for the reduction of manufacturing..
we need to point the finger.. its always "their" fault..
Besides, Lincoln sent them all home once the surrender was signed. There were enough wounds to lick and heal as it was, there would have been nothing good to have come of trying Lee (or any other confederate) for treason. It was a civil war. Like it or not, they had started out as brothers, and like it or not, they ended up as brothers again. We have not always been so generous with each other since, and sometimes much less so.
Naomi, true statements, well mostly.
I travel a lot for my company, many southern states, and I git along with everyone. But then again, I've never heard anyone say the things you believe either. Certainly not up north, and not even down south. Clearly you are not alone in your thoughts, as the Union Jack is still displayed, rather than shunned in your next of the woods. As you alluded, stuff like that would not be tolerated up north, yet is fact of life in some parts of the south.
:)-D
everyone whose name has been mentioned in this thread is a patriot. now can we get back to important stuff like megan fox?
Was there, did my part. Don't have any feelings one way or another about Jane, other than Skye's observation that she looked fine in Barberalla. Couldn't make the same concurrance on her work out vids. All that said, my small part and others' sacrifices in this part of history, ensured that she had the right to stand up for what she believed, however much I may have disagreed with it. I can live with that.
You take the good with the bad. It's easy to stand up and be counted when the cause is popular, but it count more when it's not. I accept what she did as the power of free speech, just as I accept those who chose not to fight and fled their country rather than stand up for what they believed. I don't agree with either, but neither do I condemn those for their choice as I'm certainly hoping they don't condemn me for mine.
