MGB & GT Forum
Dead battery
Posted by marvinrb1
Dead battery
#1
|
|
Topic Creator (OP)
Oct 24, 2014 04:36 PM
Joined 10 years ago
279 Posts
|
Oct 24, 2014 04:44 PM
Joined 15 years ago
4,348 Posts
|
Your MGB's electrical system has a short to ground . . . . somewhere in the system.
You have a wire that is carrying 12 volts DC:
Somewhere on that wire is a break in the insulation on part of the wire that is "touching" the metal part of the MGB body.
You can either send the car out and pay a good mechanic to find your problem, or you can go through these steps to find the problem:
MGB Dead Battery
READ THIS ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM, BEFORE YOU ATTACK YOUR MGB ELECTRICAL PROBLEM:
MOST OF THESE PROCESSES DON'T NEED ANY KNOWLEDGE; BUT, YOU DO NEED TO KNOW HOW TO MAKE ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS ON YOUR VERY OLD CAR, CLEAN AND SHINY.
Very simply stated, your Ignition Light is connected between the battery and the alternator.
When one or the other is not working correctly, and you don't have the same voltage on both sides of the light bulb, the light bulb "glows".
First:
Remove both battery cables from the battery, and clean the connections, inside the battery cable clamps, and the outer part of the battery terminals.
Look at the connection between the end of the ground cable and the connection to the MGB body.
If it is not clean, it will need the same service directed above for the battery cable clamps at the battery.
The end of the second cable, at the starter, also may need a "shoe shine" as well.
Don't have a battery terminal brush/cleaner:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Tools-Garage-and-Equipment/Battery-Terminal-Brush-Cleaner/_/N-25ni
Reinstall the battery cables.
Second:
Put a battery charger on the battery over night, to see if it will come up to a full charge.
The next morning, before you start the car, remove the battery charger leads, and measure the Battery Voltage across the terminals, inside the clamps.
Start with a multimeter set on DC volts....don't have one, this is a reasonably priced choice:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=421466
If the battery voltage, after being charged overnight, is not well above 12 volts DC, it will need to be replaced.
Bring up this file, and locate the schematic for your car.
www.advanceautowire.com/mgb.pdf
Go to the 1977 schematic:
THIRD:
With you at the battery, with the multimeter leads on each terminal, red on (+) and black on (-), have someone else start the car
Measure the DC voltage across the battery terminals, while somebody holds the accelerator down at 1500 RPM.
A healthy alternator should have an output voltage between 13.8 and 14.3 Volts DC.
If the voltage at the battery is less than 13.8 Volts DC, with the engine running at 1500 rpm, then open the hood, and check the Voltage on the large terminal on the alternator.
Again measure the Voltage while someone is pushing on the accelerator and controlling the engine speed., and see what the alternator voltage is doing when the Ignition Light comes ON.
Before you go crazy:
IT MAY NOT, with all the clean battery cable clamps and battery terminals, and a fresh battery charge, overnight.
If the battery won't hold a charge, it will need to be changed.
If the alternator does not have an output of at least 13.8 volts DC, then it will need to be replaced....don't make this decision until all the other steps are completed.
My twin brother and I, with our father's encouragement, and some tutorials from a 70 year old mechanic in 1955, learned how do all this when we were 15.
By the time we left high school in June 1958, the Model A Ford had a later model Ford flathead V8, added hydraulic brakes, and rewired the car from scratch, nothing but a roll of wire and a soldering iron.
We both became Mechanical Engineers, I at NASA's Johnson Space Center, in 1963, with a transfer to CA in 1983. My twin brother went to work for Admiral Rickover at the Navy's Bureau of Submarine Nuclear Reactor Development in Washington, DC. He is still goes to work at age 74. I retired in 2010 at 70.
Roger N. Tanner, Professional Engineer (retired)
Oxnard, CA USA
roger.n.tanner@gmail.com
Roger N. Tanner
Professional Engineer, Retired
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-24 04:46 PM by rntanner.
You have a wire that is carrying 12 volts DC:
Somewhere on that wire is a break in the insulation on part of the wire that is "touching" the metal part of the MGB body.
You can either send the car out and pay a good mechanic to find your problem, or you can go through these steps to find the problem:
MGB Dead Battery
READ THIS ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM, BEFORE YOU ATTACK YOUR MGB ELECTRICAL PROBLEM:
MOST OF THESE PROCESSES DON'T NEED ANY KNOWLEDGE; BUT, YOU DO NEED TO KNOW HOW TO MAKE ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS ON YOUR VERY OLD CAR, CLEAN AND SHINY.
Very simply stated, your Ignition Light is connected between the battery and the alternator.
When one or the other is not working correctly, and you don't have the same voltage on both sides of the light bulb, the light bulb "glows".
First:
Remove both battery cables from the battery, and clean the connections, inside the battery cable clamps, and the outer part of the battery terminals.
Look at the connection between the end of the ground cable and the connection to the MGB body.
If it is not clean, it will need the same service directed above for the battery cable clamps at the battery.
The end of the second cable, at the starter, also may need a "shoe shine" as well.
Don't have a battery terminal brush/cleaner:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Tools-Garage-and-Equipment/Battery-Terminal-Brush-Cleaner/_/N-25ni
Reinstall the battery cables.
Second:
Put a battery charger on the battery over night, to see if it will come up to a full charge.
The next morning, before you start the car, remove the battery charger leads, and measure the Battery Voltage across the terminals, inside the clamps.
Start with a multimeter set on DC volts....don't have one, this is a reasonably priced choice:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=421466
If the battery voltage, after being charged overnight, is not well above 12 volts DC, it will need to be replaced.
Bring up this file, and locate the schematic for your car.
www.advanceautowire.com/mgb.pdf
Go to the 1977 schematic:
THIRD:
With you at the battery, with the multimeter leads on each terminal, red on (+) and black on (-), have someone else start the car
Measure the DC voltage across the battery terminals, while somebody holds the accelerator down at 1500 RPM.
A healthy alternator should have an output voltage between 13.8 and 14.3 Volts DC.
If the voltage at the battery is less than 13.8 Volts DC, with the engine running at 1500 rpm, then open the hood, and check the Voltage on the large terminal on the alternator.
Again measure the Voltage while someone is pushing on the accelerator and controlling the engine speed., and see what the alternator voltage is doing when the Ignition Light comes ON.
Before you go crazy:
IT MAY NOT, with all the clean battery cable clamps and battery terminals, and a fresh battery charge, overnight.
If the battery won't hold a charge, it will need to be changed.
If the alternator does not have an output of at least 13.8 volts DC, then it will need to be replaced....don't make this decision until all the other steps are completed.
My twin brother and I, with our father's encouragement, and some tutorials from a 70 year old mechanic in 1955, learned how do all this when we were 15.
By the time we left high school in June 1958, the Model A Ford had a later model Ford flathead V8, added hydraulic brakes, and rewired the car from scratch, nothing but a roll of wire and a soldering iron.
We both became Mechanical Engineers, I at NASA's Johnson Space Center, in 1963, with a transfer to CA in 1983. My twin brother went to work for Admiral Rickover at the Navy's Bureau of Submarine Nuclear Reactor Development in Washington, DC. He is still goes to work at age 74. I retired in 2010 at 70.
Roger N. Tanner, Professional Engineer (retired)
Oxnard, CA USA
roger.n.tanner@gmail.com
Roger N. Tanner
Professional Engineer, Retired
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-24 04:46 PM by rntanner.
Oct 24, 2014 04:47 PM
Joined 20 years ago
11,349 Posts
|
Did this just start happening? What have you done before you noticed it?
Feel your alternator. See if it's hot before you run the car. That could be it. What does your ignition light do?
Take a multimeter. Pull your fuses one at a time to see where the power is on when the ignition is off. Follow the wiring diagram when you find it.
Sorry this is so general, but you asked a general question.
You might try Googling it re: "MGB battery discharge" - most of the hits will be this site - this has been asked a few times in the last 4 - 5 months.
EDIT: LOL! Roger's an Engineer. I'm just a dummy!
Jim K is a grease-stained wretch
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-24 04:49 PM by Jim K.
Feel your alternator. See if it's hot before you run the car. That could be it. What does your ignition light do?
Take a multimeter. Pull your fuses one at a time to see where the power is on when the ignition is off. Follow the wiring diagram when you find it.
Sorry this is so general, but you asked a general question.
You might try Googling it re: "MGB battery discharge" - most of the hits will be this site - this has been asked a few times in the last 4 - 5 months.
EDIT: LOL! Roger's an Engineer. I'm just a dummy!
Jim K is a grease-stained wretch
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-24 04:49 PM by Jim K.
Topic Creator (OP)
Oct 24, 2014 05:19 PM
Joined 10 years ago
279 Posts
|
Thanks for the answers.
This is the second time it's happened. The first time I replaced the battery because I had no idea how old it was and I figured I would start with at least that much being new.
Both times the ignition light didn't come on. Also both times the car had been sitting for about 2 weeks.
I will run thru the checks and see what I find.
This is the second time it's happened. The first time I replaced the battery because I had no idea how old it was and I figured I would start with at least that much being new.
Both times the ignition light didn't come on. Also both times the car had been sitting for about 2 weeks.
I will run thru the checks and see what I find.
dipstick
Kenny Snyder (RIP)
La Center, WA, USA
Sign in to contact
1941 Ford N-Series
1958 MG MGA 1500 Coupe "Rosie" 1970 MG MGB GT "Pat's GT" 1971 MG MGB "Gifted To Me" & more |
Oct 24, 2014 05:32 PM
Top Contributor
Joined 15 years ago
7,564 Posts
|
Oct 24, 2014 07:20 PM
Joined 20 years ago
11,349 Posts
|
The ignition light should come on when you turn the key to "run." But you know that. I wonder if you have a bad lamp?
That would not explain the battery drain, however. Are you sure the boot light goes out? That one can make you crazy.
Jim K is a grease-stained wretch
That would not explain the battery drain, however. Are you sure the boot light goes out? That one can make you crazy.
Jim K is a grease-stained wretch
Rick Fawthrop
Richard Fawthrop
|
Oct 24, 2014 07:23 PM
Top Contributor
Joined 12 years ago
6,695 Posts
|
jdeatsch
Jim Deatsch
|
Oct 24, 2014 07:27 PM
Joined 18 years ago
1,638 Posts
|
Actually, the use of the word 'short' is incorrect.
Were the problem a 'short' circuit going to ground (by definition this is a short circuit) the fuse would blow OR the wiring would melt and a fire would ensue (failing the wire acting as a 'fuse'.).
The problem is, simply, a draw.
Charge the battery. Fully. Then start looking for the issue.
Troubleshooting electrical issues without a multimeter is fallacy.
Hth,
Jim
Were the problem a 'short' circuit going to ground (by definition this is a short circuit) the fuse would blow OR the wiring would melt and a fire would ensue (failing the wire acting as a 'fuse'.).
The problem is, simply, a draw.
Charge the battery. Fully. Then start looking for the issue.
Troubleshooting electrical issues without a multimeter is fallacy.
Hth,
Jim
|
Oct 24, 2014 11:37 PM
Top Contributor
Joined 18 years ago
24,294 Posts
|
look in the trunk. There is a light that is supposed to come on when you open the trunk. The switch is a pressure switch that is on/off based on if the lid is open or closed. The bracket the switch is mounted on often bends, meaning the switch is ON all the time. It is towards the front, just to the right soide of the back area.
Take the bulb out of the fixture is the simplest solution. (do you REALLY need a teeny light to see in the trunk?<G>
1973 Pale Primrose Roadster. A nice 10-footer!
SUs, Datsun 5-speed
Take the bulb out of the fixture is the simplest solution. (do you REALLY need a teeny light to see in the trunk?<G>
1973 Pale Primrose Roadster. A nice 10-footer!
SUs, Datsun 5-speed
Re: Dead battery
#10
|
|
Donthuis
Don van Riet
|
Oct 25, 2014 06:15 AM
Top Contributor
Joined 10 years ago
13,327 Posts
|
Re: Dead battery
#11
|
|
NNN
Norman Nalepa
|
Oct 25, 2014 09:57 AM
Joined 14 years ago
2,705 Posts
|
Re: Dead battery
#12
|
|
Oct 25, 2014 10:26 AM
Joined 16 years ago
4,934 Posts
|
Although you need to find and fix the actual problem, you should insatll a battery cut-off switch, which will isolate the battery while the car is not in use.
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am.
Gary
1974 DeTomaso Pantera (done!!)
1969 MGB (almost finished!!)
1973 Cougar XR7 Ragtop (next project in line)
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am.
Gary
1974 DeTomaso Pantera (done!!)
1969 MGB (almost finished!!)
1973 Cougar XR7 Ragtop (next project in line)
Re: Dead battery
#13
|
|
Topic Creator (OP)
Oct 25, 2014 10:24 PM
Joined 10 years ago
279 Posts
|
Thanks again for all the answers. Today I wasn't able to do anything. I need to get a charger, already have a multimeter. Of course, a two hour drive around the countryside might make a good battery charger. I took the boot light out, the bulb fell apart but actually felt a little warm, so maybe that was the problem. I had already thought about getting a battery cutoff switch before this came up.
Topic Creator (OP)
Oct 26, 2014 02:33 PM
Joined 10 years ago
279 Posts
|
I think I may have solved my problem. I charged the battery and started the car. The alternator put out around 14 volts, the ignition light is bright with the key turned on and goes off when I start it. That was always the case though. I believe the problem was the boot light, I took it out last night and the metal on either end fell off in my hand. Also the bulb felt a little warm. I don't believe that was my imagination. We'll see how it does tomorrow morning. I would have never thought of that light being the problem. Thank-you very much for the help.
dipstick
Kenny Snyder (RIP)
La Center, WA, USA
Sign in to contact
1941 Ford N-Series
1958 MG MGA 1500 Coupe "Rosie" 1970 MG MGB GT "Pat's GT" 1971 MG MGB "Gifted To Me" & more |
Oct 26, 2014 04:33 PM
Top Contributor
Joined 15 years ago
7,564 Posts
|
" I believe the problem was the boot light, ..."
Long-long-ago-and-far-far-way I drove an early Ford Falcon that suddenly had a dead battery every morning. I replaced the battery, alternator, cables, cleaned all the terminals, still a dead battery every morning. Took the car to a fix-it shop in Oxnard, CA, they called me at noon saying they couldn't find anything wrong and they gave up, parked the car in the back of their shop. They called back about 3pm saying that all of a sudden the brake lights came on, when the brake light switch cooled off it made contact and turned on the lights all by itself. Go figure.
Be safe out there.
Kenny
Long-long-ago-and-far-far-way I drove an early Ford Falcon that suddenly had a dead battery every morning. I replaced the battery, alternator, cables, cleaned all the terminals, still a dead battery every morning. Took the car to a fix-it shop in Oxnard, CA, they called me at noon saying they couldn't find anything wrong and they gave up, parked the car in the back of their shop. They called back about 3pm saying that all of a sudden the brake lights came on, when the brake light switch cooled off it made contact and turned on the lights all by itself. Go figure.
Be safe out there.
Kenny
Forums
Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster