MG Engine Swaps Forum

Hi Everyone,

This is a last call for everyone to give their opinions before I have to pull the engine and transmission out.

Here's the scenario, low mileage 94 camaro engine, low mileage camaro T-5 which has reconditioned, New complete clutch assembly and HTOB from BMCAuto, new Lockheed clutch master cylinder etc. The system has been bled many times, an endoscope shows normal operation of the HTOB which displays the correct amount of travel. In captured video you can see the HTOB pushing and moving the pressure plate fingers. The clutch pedal is moving the clutch master cylinder through its entire stroke. Pedal pressure feels like a heavy spring is being compressed.

If I put the car in first gear, press the clutch pedal to the floor and try to start the engine, the car tries to move forward as the starter motor turns, which to me indicates either that the clutch is not disengaging or some other serious condition exists. The clearance was set at .100" using the supplied spacers as recommended.

Due to other commitments I won't be able to pull the engine until sometime in October but I'm trying to determine what the problem might be prior to that



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-28 02:30 PM by limey222.

For what it's worth, I had the same issue. I started the car with it in gear and clutch engaged. Wanted to go but th e clutch started slipping and loosened up pretty quick. No issues since that day.

Pressure plate backwards?

It's starting to look that way despite the guy who did the assembly saying "no way".

This is what I just put up on the BritishV8 site;

OK, the guy who oversaw the original install checked thing out and just reconfirmed what we already knew. He looked at the endoscope videos and commented that the clutch fingers didn't seem to be moving far enough. He said they should be approaching a straight configuration at the end of the master cylinder and HTOB stroke (people please confirm that he is right on this as I don't see anyway that the HTOB can generate that amount of movement).

Following Fred's suggestion I placed the area of the car on axle stands just high enough for the tires to be off the floor, also left the trolley jack in place and chocked the front wheels. Then I started the car in 5th with the clutch pedal down to the floor (the wheels were spinning at a high rate even on idle. I then stabbed the brakes numerous time to no avail so I don't believe anything is stuck.

Hence the decision was made that I have to pull the engine and transmission out after I get back from my vacation so it will be late Sept - early Oct.
The guy told me that the clutch disk is marked on one side so you get it right on installation. He also said that it has a very shallow boss on one side and deeper one on the opposite side so he strongly feels that it was installed correctly.

He is questioning whether some of the clutch components supplied by Brian (BMC) were incorrectly manufactured as he has seen variation in flywheel thickness etc over the years. His main concern is what i would do upon removal if everything looked correct, how would I (he) know if something was incorrectly manufactured. I am assuming that Brian knows what he is doing at this stage.

Here are some points to consider, the engine originally had an automatic transmission attached (which was never supplied) it came out of a 1994 model. I sourced a manual 1994 V6 Camaro bell housing and removed the original lever set-up and made the necessary internal minor mods inside the housing that Brian instructed me to do.
I bought the entire clutch kit from Brian, I just visited his site and noticed that he now lists two clutch kits for the 3.4 V6, one for up to and including 1993 and the other for 1993 and later. Since my setup is a 94 I wonder if he supplied the right one or if there any differences between the two kits that could cause these problems. His invoice doesn't specify which one he shipped...just a thought. I will contact him and ask, h is always very helpful.

Hi Michael,

The video you sent me - from what I can tell, the fingers start by protruding on the clutch as per norm. When a disc is in backwards, the fingers are almost flat from memory (which can be an illusive thing for many of us)

The total movement looks normal.

When a main shaft and a crankshaft do not stop moving with each other, this is something interfering and not letting go. I am not worried that you have an incorrect clutch kit- not on the radar.

A backwards clutch, a disc with issues, a sticking pilot bearing are all possible. Improper materials- possible. Improper installation- possible.

We could take 1/8" off the flywheel with no ill effects other than making it thin and possible to fly apart.

At this point, as unpleasant as it is, I believe the only way to discover and repair the problem is through disassembly.

-BMC.

Thanks once again Brian for the reassurances, it just been a process of elimination, now I know what needs to be done.

There is no way you will figure it out until you take the motor and trans out of the car. It happened to me and others that do these conversions, its part of the process. In my case I had a pilot bearing that was out of spec, as you are replacing the automatic trans, you needed to put one in the end of the crank. The problem you describe matches my problem exactly.

I've done several conversions and many swaps.

It is always worthwhile to check the clutch action before installing the drivetrain in the car. I have a separate m/c + pedal set on a block of wood. I depress the clutch pedal and have a friend spin the output shaft of the transmission with it in gear. If the output shaft wont spin, there's a problem. It just saved the effort of installing and removing the whole drivetrain. Problems have been collapsed pressure plate, clutch plate stuck to flywheel, and various HTOB woes.

I have subesquently discontinued using HTOB's , so NO HTOB PROBLEMS.

That's the best advice I've heard so far.....if it's not too late, get yourself a clutch fork and external slave and ditch the HTOB.

One other idea.

I have a McCloud HTOB in my Rover 3.5/T5 conversion. The only way I have found to completely bleed the HTOB is to inject brake fluid with a syringe and a rubber tube into the bleeder port. The only way that completely exp expels all the air.

It could be you are not getting full throw on the HTOB due to some air in the system.

I'm surprised nobody has suggested that the problem might be caused by rust?

I've seen this many times. An engine sits for awhile with the clutch clamped between the flywheel and pressure plate while surface rust binds the parts together and then the clutch disc won't release. It can be hard to get it to break free too and can take some imagination and balls. Worst case, I suppose you could wind it up in high gear with the clutch pushed in and have your buddy push it off the jack stands. Might just kill the engine, but might break the clutch free. Sometimes worth a try, or you might think of a lesser evil that still works.

Jim

Post #4

"Following Fred's suggestion I placed the area of the car on axle stands just high enough for the tires to be off the floor, also left the trolley jack in place and chocked the front wheels. Then I started the car in 5th with the clutch pedal down to the floor (the wheels were spinning at a high rate even on idle. I then stabbed the brakes numerous time to no avail so I don't believe anything is stuck. "

Good idea, but most conversion guys are like limey, just doing it one time..

Jim,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I highly doubt this could be the cause since the set up was only assembled a couple of months ago and the car has been in my garage ever since during a very hot, long, dry spell.

I suspect that Brian and others are right in their assertion that either the clutch plate was installed backwards or the pilot bearing is binding.
Either way it's a pull but it won't happen until I get back from Europe and probably not until early Oct. I've been "clutching sat straws" for a couple of weeks know but nothing has worked so I'm sadly resigned to what I have to do.

Of course the guy that did the assembly for me is saying "no way" but we shall see. He also used the bolts to draw the bell housing up to the engine so that would indicate that all was not right in retrospect.

Oh man,,,thats exactly what I did.