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Battery replacement, maybe a step backwards

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Gokart Rob Illingworth
Palmerston North, Manawatu, New Zealand   NZL
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1974 MG MGB GT
2004 MG ZR 160 "SCRUFFY"
My old 12V gave up at 11p.m. on a chilly night when I tried to start the B at the end of shift.

I look around for some suitable sized batteries with an upgrade from the 270 cca old one desirable

The pickins are slim on the bottom of the world. Everything seems to be now calcium acid for modern cars and they say older cars won't keep them chargedconfused smiley

I find something in lead acid that will fit but again it is only 260cca. So I read up, it's do-able but most prefer staying with a single battery. Not much option as there is nothing around with higher cca that will still fit comfortably, so I buy two and proceed to install. To buy the two batteries is a lot cheaper than buying one bigger one with higher ccagrinning smiley

Anyway, with some new battery terminals and new gruntier cables I clean out the boxes and proceed to set the batteries up in parallel. With the ground going off the left battery and the + feed off the right one.

A little hicup with the new ground bolt position not quite cleaned up well enough initially. But following that everything seems to work as it should.

I know in the states you use group 26 batteries which come with over 400cca but there is just no demand for those batteries here, being a predominantly outdoors oriented country (read hunting, fishing and using a lot of 4x4 type vehicles) with a population of just over 4mil people.

Will keep those of you that are interested informed if there are any problems.



Cheers Rob

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Ex-Calif Gold Member Dan D
Dayton, OH, USA   USA
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1968 MG MGB GT "Bart - Yellow And Naughty"
1977 MG MGB "Red Betty"
2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara "Suzi Q"
2012 Jeep Liberty "Tommy The Tank"
You should have no problem with a dual 12V setup but I bet with your boating culture in NZ you could have found a marine battery with some grunt.

I put a marine battery in mine because I like the stud type connection, allowed an easy install of a fuse and marine batteries come with a lift handle - very useful considering the location of the battery on the B.



The goal - Reliable summer driver interspersed with mechanical tinkering...
Motto - "Driving fifty in the twisties..."
On Mods - It's your damn car - Do what you want. Haters gonna hate...
On SUVs - Drive your B like a soccer mom is texting her friends about how she wants to kill you...
Red Betty - http://www.mgexp.com/registry/GHN5UH418165
Bart - http://www.mgexp.com/registry/GHD4U146898G


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Gokart Avatar
Gokart Rob Illingworth
Palmerston North, Manawatu, New Zealand   NZL
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1974 MG MGB GT
2004 MG ZR 160 "SCRUFFY"
I went to a battery shop (that is all they sell) and asked for a battery to fit.

They had lots of different batteries and some that would have fitted but most were not lead acid based. Probably 80% were calcium acid batteries. They and others have told me that the calcium acid batteries are not suitable for older cars as they won't charge as well and will fail sooner.

So I was very limited in what I could purchase with the size being the first prioity and the cca being the second (actually probably the third as being a lead acid battery was second).

There was no offer of "hey, there is this marine battery that will fit and have the required cca but you will just have to change the terminals".

I was talking to a friend who's son has a capri fitted with a 302 ford. He was saying he runs it with a really small battery that stock car racers use and costs very little. He said its the same sort of battery that powers a disability scooter. It has never let him down and he often doesn't start it for months. He tells me this after I did the refit.eye rolling smiley

I would be interested to hear if anyone has used a modern calcium acid battery in a MGB and details of how long it lasts, regular charging, and modifications to suit the battery.



Cheers Rob

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MGB567 Avatar
MGB567 Barrie Braxton
Ninderry, KabiKabi country, Queensland, Australia   AUS
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1966 MG MGB MkI "Money Guzzler"
1979 MG MGB GT V8 Conversion "Darkside"
Rob I can't help you but I bought a version of this - I was going to buy Varta but my battery guru had same set-up but different brand (I can't tell you which as car's on the Sunny Coast and I'm in Crete). So far so good - I suspect if they're in Oz then they're in NZ. As noted no group 26 in Oz either. I did have to trim a little off the casing near the base to get a good fit (and replace the oem battery tie down arms with one across it).

PS the link is from "Varta battery review for mgb"



Mk1: CKD 11/66 first registered 8/5/67; owned since 3/77. 18GB +40 balanced. Peter Burgess BVFR head. Piper 285. 123. FidanzaFW. 4synch c/r box. Lots more as I did a nut and bolt rebuild; finished 2015. Tartan Red.

GT: December '78. VW Golf guards, flush fit front and rear valances. Torana XU1 vents, frenched indicators & Mk1 rear lights. 'Worked' Rover V8 with Monsoon ECU for EFI. GM4L60E, Lokar tiptronic & Quick4 controller. Vintage Air A/C. FC IFS. CCE 4 link rear. Salisbury with Quaife. Jaguar Storm.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-05-24 07:00 AM by MGB567.

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Gokart Avatar
Gokart Rob Illingworth
Palmerston North, Manawatu, New Zealand   NZL
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1974 MG MGB GT
2004 MG ZR 160 "SCRUFFY"
I have already made the change to two and, so far, am quite happy.

I thought a bit of discussion may be warranted as the lead ones (at least in the southern hemisphere) are becoming less and lass common. If they are being gradually phased out (perhaps world wide) and IF the calcium acid ones are not suitable in that they will not last very long, then how do we with classic type cars get on?

I find it confusing when looking for a battery that there is nothing on the battery or in the shop to indicate which are calcium and which are lead, yet when you talk to the shop person they say 'oh those are calcium acid and won't be suitable'. How can one tell which ones are whichconfused smiley

It's funny with the Varta ones Barrie. I went on their site and they had a product finder that relates your car to the best product. The finder came up with two but not the one you showed.

I think the B36 Varta is a lead acid battery. Its very hard to pin down even in the spesifications.



Cheers Rob

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lewisrn Avatar
lewisrn Gold Member Bob L
Danville, IN, USA   USA
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1980 MG MGB "The "B"
I learn something almost every day here.

I had never heard the term "Calcium Acid" battery so I looked it up and found this:

"Calcium batteries are acid batteries, however the lead plate is impregnated with calcium rather than antimony as in a conventional lead acid battery. Antimony and calcium are used to strengthen the plates as lead is relatively soft. Both calcium and antimony batteries have disadvantages and advantages. The main advantages of a calcium battery are longer shelf life (they self discharge very slowly), more resistant to vibrations, higher cold cranking amp ratings, less prone to sulphation. The disadvantages of a calcium battery are they are more expensive, harder to recharge once flat, shorter service life, older vehicles cannot charge them properly and they require a certain type of charger to recover them."

I wonder if those of us running 100+ amp alternators could use one of the calcium acid batteries.



“Ideological certainty easily degenerates into an insistence upon ignorance". Daniel Patrick Moynihan

In any debate, the side which strays from civil discussion is usually the side that lacks confidence in its debate position or in the merit of their arguments. Making personal attacks on the opponents instead of staying on the subject is also a sign of weakness.

Anyone who feels compelled to respond in kind to any perceived slight is often suffering from narcissism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-05-24 01:51 PM by lewisrn.

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Donthuis Avatar
Donthuis Don van Riet
Rijswijk, ZH, Netherlands   NLD
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I had my battery tested by my specialist provider "midterm" so to speak after 3-4 years, it is normal lead acid in 6Volts and still available over here. thumbs up
The guy also supplies VARTA 12 Volt types as the ones shown in this post (12 Volts Blue 34 fits in the 6 Volts box, but is less powerfull, so I wonder about the 36)

He strongly advised against the smaller MAZDA MX-5 12Volts battery, because the lead acid type of charging of the B will dramatically shorten its life.
Something not everyone is aware of, MAZDA used a different, closed type not generating gass, since it sits inside the passengers room..

He subsequenty showed a 6 Volts OPTIMA MArine battery, also closed, but fitting to a charging method for lead-acid, so OK for the B in the future.
Two of them would do the trick or a single 12 Volts OPTIMA. How they fit I have not yet checked, I still have some years on my existing ones

See https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us for the States and http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/en-nz/ for New Zealand

The search however defaults to a second website to define the exact type and dimensions for my own 1972, so I can nog give you any exact results for early cars
For the later B's with the larger battery box it is much easier, see http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/find-a-battery/?year=1977&make=MG&model=MGB&engine=L4-1.8L&find_button=Search

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Gokart Avatar
Gokart Rob Illingworth
Palmerston North, Manawatu, New Zealand   NZL
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1974 MG MGB GT
2004 MG ZR 160 "SCRUFFY"
Don,

Nice batteries and very high CCA. I think though the length is too big for a B standard box though. And the price for 1 of these exceeds the price of the two I bought by at least $60.

Don't know if you get more for the money in longevity?



Cheers Rob

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Dave W Avatar
Dave W David Wilhelm
Willits, CA, USA   USA
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1963 MG MGB
1970 MG MGB GT "New Girl"
Are marine batteries deep cycle batteries?

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Donthuis Avatar
Donthuis Don van Riet
Rijswijk, ZH, Netherlands   NLD
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Well its is just a suggestion originaly coming from an expert in batteries. At least they accept traditional "lead acid" comparable charging
I agree on the price though, next time I will try double 6Volts again and if need be the small 12 Volts Varta Blue.

The slightly larger group 26 batteries are widespread in the States but not over here in Europe eye rolling smiley

PS I sometimes wonder what will happen if you double the long thick battery to startermotor cable and hereby halve the resistance eye rolling smiley

In reply to # 3273384 by Gokart Don,

Nice batteries and very high CCA. I think though the length is too big for a B standard box though. And the price for 1 of these exceeds the price of the two I bought by at least $60.

Don't know if you get more for the money in longevity?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2016-05-31 03:04 AM by Donthuis.

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Ex-Calif Gold Member Dan D
Dayton, OH, USA   USA
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1968 MG MGB GT "Bart - Yellow And Naughty"
1977 MG MGB "Red Betty"
2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara "Suzi Q"
2012 Jeep Liberty "Tommy The Tank"
Yes. They are also rated in Marine Cranking Amps (MCA) - this just means the temperature at which they are tested is a bit higher.

Everything is a trade off. To get a deep cycle plate (a little thicker ) into the same form size you give up a few CCA. You usually get higher amp hours.

In reply to # 3273389 by Dave W Are marine batteries deep cycle batteries?



The goal - Reliable summer driver interspersed with mechanical tinkering...
Motto - "Driving fifty in the twisties..."
On Mods - It's your damn car - Do what you want. Haters gonna hate...
On SUVs - Drive your B like a soccer mom is texting her friends about how she wants to kill you...
Red Betty - http://www.mgexp.com/registry/GHN5UH418165
Bart - http://www.mgexp.com/registry/GHD4U146898G

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dclsmgc David Lukens
Newberg, OR, USA   USA
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1968 MG MGC
So I thought I would share what I just did on my 68 MGC. I was going to install an Optima 35 on it's side to get it to fit. But when I went to install the battery I discovered that by modifying the plastic shipping top to fit the existing battery hole I was able to slip the battery in over the top of the angles. This battery has a CCA rating of 620 and an Ah rating of 48. It fits nice and now I only have to tie it down. Starts the the 6 cylinder with ease.
Dave

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Donthuis Avatar
Donthuis Don van Riet
Rijswijk, ZH, Netherlands   NLD
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This is what this battery expert also told me: you can mount OPTIMA ones in any position you like.
Still it is nice to know you can have it connecting terminals up anyway, looks better and automatically you get better prevention against shorts

BTW did you mount a Single 12Volts, or two 6Volt Optima's?

In reply to # 3274107 by dclsmgc So I thought I would share what I just did on my 68 MGC. I was going to install an Optima 35 on it's side to get it to fit. But when I went to install the battery I discovered that by modifying the plastic shipping top to fit the existing battery hole I was able to slip the battery in over the top of the angles. This battery has a CCA rating of 620 and an Ah rating of 48. It fits nice and now I only have to tie it down. Starts the the 6 cylinder with ease.
Dave

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guzzijimbo Jim Williamson
Feilding, manawatu, New Zealand   NZL
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Hey Rob, Sorry to here about your battery hassles.
The calcium batteries are usually easy to pick out of a lineup, Rule of thumb is that calcium batteries are marketed as maintenance free, and are nearly always the type with no lids over the cells for topping up/checking. Sometimes have the little telltale eye, which is actually a little hydrometer floating in the electrolyte, showing green from the spy hole when the electrolyte SG is OK.
The lead acid batteries still have caps over the cells for top up/maintenance.

The calcium batteries prefer a slightly higher charging voltage to keep them happy. Maybe an alternator update could have kept a calcium battery topped up - but then finding & fitting a new alternator off something modern might have been more hassle than a pair of batteries.

Some of our new stuff at work are now coming with Calcium silver batteries - supposedly longer life & even more cranking power.....

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Gokart Rob Illingworth
Palmerston North, Manawatu, New Zealand   NZL
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1974 MG MGB GT
2004 MG ZR 160 "SCRUFFY"
Thanks Jim,

Shoulda asked ya in the first place.

Century gave me a good deal at quite a bit under $200. (For all those reading from outside NZ that's not a bad price here).

I kinda like the idea that both those battery boxes are utilised pretty much as they were supposed to in the first place (aside from the bigger batteries, 6V, of course).

I kinda thought it might be the sealed batteries non sealed thing. And others have put in gruntier Alts, but then they usually are not just a simple bolt in either for the mount, pulley or wiring, a hassle as you say (at least more so than two batteries)



Cheers Rob

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